New MC research - bacterial aetiology??

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Zizzle
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New MC research - bacterial aetiology??

Post by Zizzle »

Anyone able to make heads or tails of this?? Tex?

Lysozyme expression in microscopic colitis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21460390

The increased production of the antibacterial enzyme lysozyme in CC and LC supports a bacterial aetiology for these two diseases. Lysozyme upregulation in different cell types (epithelial vs macrophages) supports the notion that CC and LC might be two different maladies.
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Post by Zizzle »

This old study differentiates Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis, noting that activated T-lymphocytes are present in Crohns, but not in UC. Could MC/LC and Crohn's be on the same disease continuum?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8109803
Lamina propria T lymphocytes seem to have lost their physiological unresponsiveness to several microbial antigens. All these observations suggest that Crohn's disease may be caused by hyperreaction of the local cellular immune system to numerous microbial and nutritional antigens normally present in the intestine.
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Post by sarkin »

Z,

Just starting to read - it struck me from reading just the quotes that lysozyme might be there in response to a *perceived* pathogen, once antibodies to gluten (and other ingested proteins) start to be produced; another thought I had is a little vaguer, so I'll hold it till I read the articles, which I hope will set me straight ;)

Thanks for this food for thought,

S
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Post by tex »

Hmmmmm. Well, I'm not sure whether to draw any conclusions from those observations, or not. First off, they chose the left colon as the site for taking biopsy samples, and that optimizes the chances of discovering UC, but reduces the odds of finding markers of LC, CC, or Crohn's, as those markers are most prominent in the right colon and the terminal ileum. There is some question whether markers for any specific disease will be identical, when taken from varying locations in the intestinal tract, though that may well be irrelevant.

The observation that, "The number of cases with metaplastic Paneth cells was higher in CC than in LC (p<0.05)", might possibly be significant, but we have no particular reason to believe that it is, because no one knows why Paneth cells sometimes appear in the colon, in the first place. Paneth cells are a small intestinal phenomenon. It's often speculated that the presence of Paneth cells in the colon implies a pre-cancerous condition, and yet, I'm not aware that theory has ever been proven, and more importantly, no known increased risk of cancer associated with CC has ever been documented. :shrug:
The increased production of the antibacterial enzyme lysozyme in CC and LC supports a bacterial aetiology for these two diseases.
Maybe, but that's not exactly overwhelming evidence. The presence of the enzyme obviously verifies that it is associated with the disease, and it introduces the possibility of a bacterial connection, but it doesn't necessarily provide a strong case for a bacterial etiology. That enzyme is present in many body excretions, such as saliva, tears, human milk, mucus, etc. Large amounts can be found in egg white, and that's where it was first discovered, (it's antibacterial properties led to the discovery of penicillin). The researcher who discovered penicillin, determined that snot, (or more politely - mucus from a patient with a head cold), had antibacterial attributes when applied to bacterial cultures.

Lysozyme is especially effective against gram-positive bacteria, (including staph and strep bacteria), which are always present to some extent in the gut. Most bacteria are opportunistic, and so when the gut is already "under attack" by other inflammatory vectors, they will naturally try to take advantage of the situation, and try to gain a toe-hold. So that may be why the lysozyme is there, just as a precaution. IOW, it may be a natural response of the innate immune system, to the particular type of inflammation caused by MC.
Lysozyme upregulation in different cell types (epithelial vs macrophages) supports the notion that CC and LC might be two different maladies.
Since the laboratory markers of LC and CC are quite different, (lymphocytic infiltration of the mucosa, versus collagen band thickening in the lamina propria) , it's not surprising that LC might show "Marked lysozyme immune-reactivity in subepithelial lamina propria mucosa (lpm) macrophages", whereas CC showed "marked lysozyme expression in the colonic crypts". Until/unless lysozyme is accepted as a required marker for diagnosis of the disease, such distinctions are of academic interest, only. :shrug:

That said, it certainly does advance the theory, (which Dr. Fine, Polly and I have long held), that MC, (and all IBDs, for that matter), might possibly be caused by bacteria. I note that, for example, conjunctivitis seems to be associated with MC, and the main defense of the membrane covering the eye is the enzymes secreted in tears, mainly lysozyme and defensin. Again, that might just be a coincidence, or it might have significance for MC. :shrug:

Regarding the second link - yes, Crohn's and MC are rather closely related. The primary difference is the depth of penetration of the inflammatory reactions into the cell walls of the intestines. Unlike UC, (which presents at the distal colon/rectum), both Crohn's and MC can present in virtually any part of the digestive tract, from mouth to anus.

I suppose to sum up my response, I would have to say once again, that I don't have the foggiest idea if that research has any real significance, or not. :sigh: (I'm inclined to believe that it does, of course.) At any rate, that's certainly an interesting discovery.

Thanks for the links.

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by sarkin »

Thanks, Tex - your idea that this might be a natural response by the immune system to MC-inflammation was the nagging notion I couldn't quite bring to the surface earlier.

Very interesting - and *if* there's a bacterial agent pulling the trigger on a genetic tendency, I still want to know what that genetic tendency is "for" - if there might not be some other bacterial agent that those of us with gluten sensitivity might have superior resistance to, in the absence of a gluten-intensive diet. But that's a whole 'nother story. It will be really interesting if they can figure out what bacteria *or* what combo of circumstances and bacteria are more likely move us from ticking bomb to MC patient.

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fungi and their mycotoxins as the cause?

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Tex,
I'm sure you'll know all there is to know about this one, considering your line of work. Lately I've been thinking about my food sensitivities as symptoms of my LC, not the cause. I don't want to find out what new foods I'm reacting to this month, I want to treat the underlying problem. I am 99.9% convinced that we all have some microorganism to blame, and that we sucumbed to it during some period of immune supression -- stress, pregnancy, illness, antibiotic treatment, etc. Having gluten-sensitive genes just guranteed that this infection would trigger them. Today's overwhelming rates of gluten intolerance point to something other than just GMO wheat, or amounts of gluten in our diet. Autistic children have a gluten-sensitive form of enterocolitis. All kinds of people with other conditions are responding to gluten elimination now. But why?? Could gluten simply be the preferred fuel for whatever stealth organism we are harboring? Is grain intake simply welcoming to many fungi into our bodies? Could higher rates of IBDs in developing countries be related to the high proportion of grain in our diets? And why are celiac patients developing MC despite strict adherence to the GF diet? Something else must be at play here...

This relatively old article by Dr. Mercola points to fungi and mycotoxins as a cause of IBDs. I must say, the logic makes sense, and may explain all the corn and other grain intolerances we see among MCers. I may be ready to stop all grains and head to the store to buy Caprylic Acid!!

If we want to avoid these mycotoxins, are they primarily found in stored grains? Is fresh corn OK? Does rice harbor the same levels of fungi? If so, are the fungi levels destroyed when making rice into rice noodles? Is any grain safe? Do dry beans and legumes also carry fungi?


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... sease.aspx
over-consuming corn, as so many Celiac patients do since they have few other choices of grains in their diet, is likely to propagate the illness. Many people have successfully treated (dare we say cured?) their Celiac disease by not only avoiding grains altogether--especially corn--but also including antifungal medications in their treatment regimen. Such antifungals may include the natural, coconut-derived fatty acid known as Caprylic acid (available over the counter), or stronger, prescriptive antifungals.
Once again, I'm contemplating the nuclear option of a course of antibiotics plus anti-fungals, followed by probiotics and a grain-free diet. All my autimmune issues started during a post-partum period marked by a bladder infection and 4 rounds of mastitis and LOTS of antibiotics. Could this be the trigger and not the pregnancy at all? I'm tired of wondering and waiting. I need answers!! :hissyfit:
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Post by sarkin »

I want answers, too, Z - and I love your ferocious determination to ferret out the culprit. I bet there isn't a single culprit. For me, there was a superfecta of stupid mistakes, multiple miscarriages, stress, antibiotics, codeine for the pain (to keep all that toxic mess bubbling inside me, uneliminated - nice)... unDx C. diff I took Imodium for (talk about doing a bad bug a good favor), who knows what else. But maybe I wouldn't have had all those miscarriages if I had been GF for some period of time before. Maybe my childhood allergies would have been less debilitating. Maybe I wouldn't have been sick as frequently, maybe my bone density would be better, blah blah blah.

I am believing some intermediate thought - I don't believe that having GS genes *guarantees* that they'll be triggered by a particular bug (or you and I and Tex would all have lots more family members with symptoms, in my opinion). I think it's not quite right to say that MC/CC/LC causes food sensitivities, nor that food sensitivities are precisely/only symptoms of MC/CC/LC. (I now owe you a positive statement of how I think those two relate, and I am pondering.)

You must have seen that recent thread about a pathogen that basically lives on histamine - yes? So it might not be the gluten itself, but the response to gluten in the body - which is more complicated than "gluten in, zonulin out." I cannot think of any reason other than laziness and social pressure to eat cereal grains at the moment, and I feel amazingly better avoiding them altogether. Whether that's because they share a lot of biochemical relatedness, or because they harbor a similar or same pathogen when stored (and why would beans be immune) - I am curious but I don't care, as regards affecting my personal consumption. Even my skin is a better color and tone when I eat no grains at all (not to mention the MC symptom relief). I had a weird skin glitch starting right after that wedding we attended - have had no grains at all since then, and it is amazing how fast that went away, along with a simmering mouth sore. Not to mention the energy. Even our friend rice in small quantities is not benign for me, it seems, though I don't have the kind of symptom drama associated with gluten or dairy. For the first time since I got sick, I am sure I'm going to be well.

Your line of thinking is fascinating to me, and could help people understand how to keep their genetic gluten sensitivity from forcing them to exclude grains... I am not persuaded that is an important goal, at least for me. I still think the thinking is valuable and could really help our understanding of MC, diet, and more.

I suspect that a lot of people feel better when they eliminate gluten because they, too, have some genetic sensitivity that has not yet triggered into sufficiently disastrous symptoms to get them a Dx (and look how long it takes to get diagnosed even once you've entered disaster territory, for far too many people). So they "know" that they can eat gluten. And they are mistaken, or at least that are not unqualifiedly correct. I used to know I wasn't celiac. Heck, I used to have an iron stomach - I didn't even own Pepto or Imodium or Rolaids or Tums, not to mention the more new-fangled stuff. Some of the people who are such connoisseurs of those things they have a medicine cabinet full and can tell you why they like the chewables vs. the liquids? They are NO LONGER a ticking bomb. They flat-out have some kind of gluten issue and do not know it yet (that's opinion, not fact, of course). I can't tell you what organ(s) it's affecting, but I'd bet the rent. In this case, I could name some names, and if I could afford to spring for Enterolab testing for several dear friends (and if they'd go along with it), I am confident I would win that bet.

You've had happy experience with antibiotics - I've only lived their darker side, since MC. Antifungals, I could ponder that (certainly Flagyl helps with that, and it did knock my C. diff into a state of submission way back when). Caprylic acid, I'll be researching that now. But I'm big on the "first, do no harm" theory of practicing medicine on myself without a license. (UNLIKE a shocking number of physicians, I might add.) So I am trying to add things very conservatively. (Fish oil - so far, so good.)

I believe yeast (or yeast sensitivity?) is implicated in Crohn's, so it's interesting that you point out that connection between MC and Crohn's, and not UC in this fungal-suspecting context. I can tell you that Flagyl did not knock my MC out - maybe if I had taken it longer (it was awful, I hope never to take it again). I also made a serious antifungal effort with oregano oil at the time. Maybe the wrong weapon, or the wrong dose, or a multi-pronged approach would have succeeded. Or - maybe it worked, to the extent I didn't discover I am spectacularly sensitive to gluten till years later - maybe it killed off just enough fungal enemies to keep me in the dark about that.

I knew someone who beat Candida many years ago essentially by starving it out. That takes insane persistence and patience. But wait - we already need insane persistence and patience, just to get through our MC day!

I hope your answers come soon (and your full symptom relief even sooner).

Good thinking,

Sara
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Post by Kari »

Hi Zizzle - I so enjoy your inquisitiveness and tenacity!!! Now you have me really curious about Caprylic acid - please let us know if you decide to experiment with it.

Sara - you mentioned that you took oil of oregano a while back - would appreciate if you could elaborate a bit about your experience with it. My fiance has a good friend who swears by it - he has bought it for me twice, and both times I returned it to him unused. I'm terrified of introducing anything into my system that can upset the applecart in any way. I'm holding to a precarious balance of eating right, as well as enough, so as not to lose any more weight or induce a dreaded flare.

Love,
Kari
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Post by tex »

Zizzle,

Wow! You ask some tough questions. I wish I knew the answers. (I can answer some of them, but I can only make an educated guess at others).

Actually, GMO wheat does not exist, (at least not in the conventional sense). The only wheat seed modifications that have been made since the dawn of the neolithic period, have been by selective breeding, though admittedly, most of them have been made in the last 200 years. Technically, selective breeding is a form of genetic modification, but it does not involve any laboratory-based gene splicing, obviously - instead, it takes advantage of natural mutations that occur by evolution.

OK, this part is just my opinion:

Yes, I agree that something besides just gluten-sensitivity, (and other related food-sensitivities), are at play here. I have a hunch that a huge part of the problem is that our immune systems have been bombarded for the past few decades with increasing numbers of "chemical foods", rather than real foods. Items such as artificial sweeteners, natural sweeteners, (that are not really natural, such as corn-based sweeteners), chemical preservatives of all descriptions, emulsifiers, (made from soy, and who-knows-what-else?), synthetic this, and synthetic that, isolated food components, (rather than whole foods), that we were never designed to eat, such as inulin, natural flavorings, starches, polyunsaturated this, and hydrolyzed that, etc., etc., on top of the issues caused by grains that we were never evolved to digest, and exacerbated by mycotoxins in grain, all probably contribute to the problem. And on top of all this, all these chemical and nutritional "experiments" that we are regularly conducting, are bound to cause changes in our gut bacteria populations, and most of those changes are probably not for the better.

The food manufacturing industry has somehow convinced us, that rather than eating real food, we should eat an assortment of chemical ingredients, tailored to deliver the specific nutrition that we need. :roll: The net result has probably resulted in our immune system becoming overwhelmed with issues that it was never evolved to handle. Our immune system evolved on whole food, not "designer" food.

In paleo times, by the time a baby could walk, their immune system had already most likely been exposed to just about every possible threat that existed in the prevailing environment. Today, we continue to bombard our immune system with new issues on an almost daily basis. New "food ingredients" are continually being developed, (hundreds - maybe thousands, are developed every year, though not all of them are adopted), and where are they developed? In laboratories, not in gardens or forests or fields. Our immune systems were not designed to deal with threats developed in laboratories. IOW, IMO, our current problems are probably due to a myriad of causes - we're simply flooding our body with more junk, (junk created in laboratories), that it can deal with, on a continuing basis. At least that's how I see it. :shrug:
Zizzle wrote:And why are celiac patients developing MC despite strict adherence to the GF diet? Something else must be at play here...
I don't recall the exact numbers, but research shows that approximately half of all celiacs are not 100% faithful to the diet, either due to occasional or frequent cheating, or because of failing to be diligent enough in label-reading, etc., or from accidental exposure due to cross-contamination, or incorrect labeling, (which happens far more often than most people realize). That makes them all vulnerable to developing other autoimmune issues, including MC. In many cases, I'll bet the damage was already done before they were initially diagnosed with celiac disease, because of the poor diagnostic rate. In some cases, both diseases are diagnosed at the same time, and in others, it probably takes a while before the additional food sensitivities became "mature". Many doctors stop looking, once they find either celiac disease, or MC, so the other disease isn't discovered until later, when a patient fails to respond to treatment. That's probably especially true when celiac disease is diagnosed first.

OK, this part is fact:

I agree that mycotoxins in grain are probably a part of the mix that I described above, and they are definitely on the increase. 20 years ago, aflatoxin was a seldom-encountered problem, and the other mycotoxins were virtually unheard of, outside of academic halls. Today, it is a very frequent problem in many parts of the world, and the concentrations of not only aflatoxin, but fumonison, zearalenone and others, are showing up in grain fields in increasing concentrations, with increasing frequency. Their presence is monitored and regulated by USDA, and state regulatory agencies, of course, but we all know that most government regulatory agencies are far from efficient.
Zizzle wrote:If we want to avoid these mycotoxins, are they primarily found in stored grains? Is fresh corn OK? Does rice harbor the same levels of fungi?
Most mycotoxins develop in the fields, while the grain is growing, or while it is maturing, but in some cases, it can also become worse, during storage, if storage conditions are not correct, (IOW, if grains is stored with too much moisture, the problem can increase). Yes, immature corn is safe, (aflatoxin, for example, cannot develop until the grain dries down to below roughly 18% moisture). Fresh corn, (roasting ears), should have a moisture level at least up in the 40 to 50% range, so it is perfectly safe. I'm not aware of any mycotoxins that commonly infect rice. Corn, grain sorghum, (milo), wheat, (and related grains, such as barley and rye, spelt, etc.) are vulnerable, both in the field, and in storage. (Wheat doesn't normally develop aflatoxin, or fumonison, but it can develop vomitoxin, zearalenone, etc., if growing conditions are unusually moist).

It's possible for rice to develop aflatoxin or fumonison, but due to the fact that rice grows in water, and the fact that it's a relatively expensive crop, so that proper storage conditions are universally maintained, IMO, the odds of finding any rice contaminated with a mycotoxin, are close to zero, (at least in this country). Admittedly, I haven't checked out the statistics, but I see no reason why mycotoxins should be anything more than a theoretical problem, with rice.

As far as I am aware, no normal cooking process can destroy any mycotoxin, (without destroying the food, in the process), because very high temps are required, for a significant period of time. A strong solution of clorox bleach will neutralize it, as will exposure to ammonia, at high pressure, and an elevated temperature, but since that will turn any grain or seed product black, it's not a practical solution.
Zizzle wrote:Is any grain safe? Do dry beans and legumes also carry fungi?
The first food item in which aflatoxin was discovered, is peanuts, (a legume), and aflatoxin is still a problem with peanuts. Hopefully, the regulators do a decent job of minimizing the risk, but I'm pretty sure that a fair number of contaminated peanuts reach market, because they're uniquely vulnerable to fungal growth, due to the fact that moisture control is more difficult while they are still in the shell, (they're harvested in the shell, and usually stored that way, until final disposition). (Never eat a moldy-looking peanut.) Cotton is not a legume, but cottonseed is another food product that often has a serious aflatoxin problem. It's claimed that the oil should be safe, but we all know how shaky a similar claim about soy protein not existing in soy oil, turns out to be, for anyone with MC.

I'm not very familiar with the bean business, but yes, dried beans are vulnerable to mycotoxins, if not stored properly. In fact, mycotoxins are even found in coffee beans, but proper roasting, in an oven, at 200 degrees C, (400 degrees F), for about 15 minutes, will usually bring down the level to a tolerable percentage.

IMO, rice is probably the safest common grain, from a mycotoxin risk standpoint. Rice should inherently have a very low risk.
Zizzle wrote:All my autimmune issues started during a post-partum period marked by a bladder infection and 4 rounds of mastitis and LOTS of antibiotics. Could this be the trigger and not the pregnancy at all?
I'm back to simply stating an opinion, here, again, but IMO, the multiple doses of antibiotics are probably much more likely to have caused long-term autoimmune problems, and gut bacteria population issues, than the hormonal changes that occur with pregnancy.

One other thing comes to mind, and this is just thinking out loud, but one of the biggest sources of gene alterations are viruses. Environmental effects, such as gut bacteria, stress, (possibly vaccines), and probably a few other undiscovered influences, can cause epigenetic changes that result in the triggering of genes, but viruses can alter the genes themselves. I suspect that viruses may play a much bigger role in our health, than the medical community understands, and I certainly don't claim to know much about it, either.

I hope this helps.

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by Joefnh »

Interesting article, I have noticed on a couple of the Crohns sites that several members are reporting both MC and Crohns as a diagnosis. Given the research presented here it certainly does seem that the etiology has a shared root cause. I have always had a hard time with the premise that MC is idiopathic in nature.

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Post by sarkin »

Tex,

That was terrific, thanks. I have tried to think of how something viral might play into all this, but honestly do not know how to start thinking, or reading.

I also have had a nagging question, which I've been reluctant to spend too much time on here in this forum, though I've touched on it. But I do want to know - why am I not sicker? I have the double DQ2 genes, my Enterolab results were impressively high even after 3 months GF/DF, I am well past the middle of "middle age" and have been sick with untreated MC for a long time. Of course it's not been a totally downhill stroll, but I don't seem to be having a cascade of additional food sensitivities (I know, that can still happen), and I'm overall doing pretty well.

The only thing I can think of is that I've really never eaten a lot of processed foods. Believe me, day-glo orange Doritos have passed my lips - but I have probably eaten at McDonald's less than a dozen times in my life, and I doubt I have consumed even a total of a half-gallon of soda, sugared or sugar-free, in the past 35-40 years. Tried to like it as a kid, just didn't. We've always cooked mostly from scratch, we eat a lot of vegetables (fresh and local when we can get 'em), and all that good stuff. But we have always eaten out (so who am I kidding - I've had more HCFS than I think), and I had some stressful years in there, both back around my first bout with MC, and during my late parents' declining years.

I'm not bragging about my virtuous behavior, because if I'd had different habits, I'd be struggling now to change them, same as anyone. (Oh, wait - I am struggling to change my bad habits - all the time!) I am interested, though, in my luck, and if there's anything I can do to have more of that luck, going forward from here. I could be one symptom away from thyroid problems (and glaucoma, cataracts, macular degeneration, osteoporosis, dementia, stroke...). Or, maybe I'm finally eating a way that can keep me lucky? Or at least luckier than I would have been if the gluten bomb had dropped a few more years down the road.

I know I need to be careful taking credit (or giving advice). I know I can only be one lab rat at a time (meaning - I can't also be the "control subject" for my experiments with diet, supplements, etc). I guess I'm not sure what else I know, or can know.

Thanks for listening!

And Kari - I liked the Oil of Oregano. I don't think it helped my original out-of-control MC; maybe it would have, if I had known about the diet connection. I have no idea whether it was a factor in bringing about my mysterious remission back then. I have not been taking it regularly in the interim, though we did have it in our lives on and off for quite a while. My husband adored the taste of it in orange juice. Most of us would not agree ;) If you can have oregano, I would guess that adding a drop or two at a time to the EVOO you're already using might add a flavor bonus, and you could titer up your 'dosage' if you like it. One benefit Robert liked was - he had drastically reduced body odor. No kidding. So it really seems to be doing something about some microorganism or other. I have been considering adding it back, and may buy it for R's 'toolkit' - but like you, I am reluctant to do anything to upset the applecart.

I am not clear whether the MC problems that are likely kick-started by a pathogen are necessarily only present when the pathogen is in the gut. It seems as though, even if the pathogen is eliminated, the body will continue to react to certain foods *as though* they are pathogens. OR - maybe for some folks, it's a current infestation, and for others, it's an undetected food, and those courses of symptoms and illness are remarkably similar. And for some people - some kinds of chronic pain become almost habitual - the nerves just can't get the clue to stop firing. I wonder, when intractable D is going on, whether there's not something like that happening - it's not a rogue food, we have to find some other way to break the cycle (acupuncture, meditation, a pedicure???). In some cases, that's where even a "blunt instrument" type of medication can be a huge help. (That might have the case with my brief love affair with Pepto Bismol.)

And to Z in particular - I'd just like to close this ramble by adding something I should not have omitted from my previous: I started taking Saccharomyces boulardii again, after the discussion on a previous forum thread that has some overlapping topics with this one. I had seemed to react to it when first ill - but honestly, you just can't tell when you're that sick. I started with one a day, and have upped it to 2 (most days - I sometimes forget the 2nd one... need to be more systematic). So far, no troubles. And since I know it outcompeted nasty recurrent C. diff for my mother, and that evil bug may yet reside within me, I am thinking to use up this bottle and see what I think. It seems to me that it might be helping. Too soon to tell.

I think that without other intervention, few available probiotics can win a serious war. Or maybe it's better to say that while symptoms are uncontrolled, probiotics alone won't fix them (and may make things worse). I am guessing that it is a possibility that dropping rice helped - maybe not because of aflatoxin, and maybe not because I have an intolerance, but simply because whatever pest I *might* be harboring *might* like rice/grains. That's speculation on top of notion on top of total guesswork. And I'm looking at what you just wrote about fresh corn, Tex, and trying to imagine what I'll be thinking when that hits our CSA and local farmer markets. If/when you see my GF/DF/EG/SF chilled corn chowder recipe in Dee's Kitchen, you'll know what I concluded. (It was amazing last year, our first great corn year in a long time.)

Joe,

I have begun to dislike 'idiopathic' as used by Big Med. I'm going to correct it to "agnogenic" with doctors from now on, if they use that word. Agnogenic actually means what they intend by idiopathic - of unknown (agno-) origin (-genic - like genesis). Idiopathic, in my opinion, moves the blame away from the ignorance of the practitioner, and onto the system they don't understand (idio- meaning one's one - personal; -pathic indicating a disease). That system they don't understand would be us. (I must have told you all before about the doctor who condescended to me by saying I didn't need to worry about the long Greek name of my condition, right? Heh.) Idiopathic also means a disease that's not caused by another disease. I believe we're building some consensus to disagree with that meaning as well.

I cannot imagine anywhere, on the Internet or off, where I would be happier to be confused in such excellent company.

Love,
Sara
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Post by tex »

I forgot to mention the research that suggests that gluten-sensitivity may be triggered by the fact that certain peptides in gluten mimic similar peptides in human adenovirus. Additionally, certain peptides in all proteins to which we are sensitive, (apparently), mimic these same or similar peptides. IOW, the immune system thinks that it is reacting to a pathogen, but it is being "fooled" by a peptide that mimics a viral pathogen.
In the present study sera from coeliac disease patients from the United Kingdom and the United States were assayed for neutralising antibody to Ad12 as evidence of past exposure to that virus and for antibody to synthetic peptides of A-gliadin from the region of shared sequence with the Ad12 E1b protein. Eighty nine per cent of untreated coeliac disease patients had evidence of previous Ad12 infection.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1433141/

For example, the common childhood pathogen rotovirus meets the qualifications:
In the 1980s a 12-amino acid sequence homology was found between A-gliadin and the E16 protein from the human adenovirus type 12 (16). More recently epidemiological observations on the seasonal pattern of incidence of CD have sustained the hypothesis of a viral infection triggering the disease (17). Rotavirus, as seems obvious from the articles by Stene et al and Zanoni et al, is a good candidate.

The scenario that can be envisioned is that the contact with gluten at a time when there is ongoing intestinal inflammation, altered intestinal permeability, and type I and type II interferon production, upregulation of HLA-DQ2 and HLA-DQ8 on dendritic cells, will increase the risk for developing CD, at least in a subset of individuals. At the same time, the phenomenon of molecular mimicry may trigger autoimmunity. The possibility that these antibodies, among their other biological activities, may modulate the innate immune response through activation of TLRs, is a new, intriguing observation.
"CD" stands for "celiac disease", of course, and TLRs stands for toll-like receptors.

http://journals.lww.com/jpgn/Fulltext/2 ... the.1.aspx

I see no reason why a similar situation involving the upregulation of alternate genes that predispose to gluten-sensitivity, (but not necessarily celiac disease), - DQ1 genes, for example, could not trigger MC, along with autoimmunity, by the same mechanism. :shrug:

Any thoughts?

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by Joefnh »

Tex what do you think triggers the body to start reacting to these peptides? The adenovirus is present from an early age and immunity for it would most likely be passed on from the mother. Is this an issue of a 'tipping point' given the constant presence of gluten the 'standard diet' producing a persistent response by the immune system.

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Post by tex »

Joe,

If we inherit immunity, then resistance would be a part of our innate immune system. According to Wikipedia:
Innate cellular immunity recognizes viral infection using toll-like receptors (TLRs), or pattern recognition receptors, which sense Pathogen-associated molecular patterns (PAMPs), triggering the expression of nonspecific antiviral proteins.
The part that I've emphasized in red, defines why molecular mimicry is possible. If you're asking why we would react to the alpha gliadin peptide, that's because it mimics a similar peptide in the amino acid chain that defines rotovirus. By coincidence, those two amino acid sequences are identical, except for a single amino acid position. That's known as molecular mimicry.

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by tex »

Joe wrote:Is this an issue of a 'tipping point' given the constant presence of gluten the 'standard diet' producing a persistent response by the immune system.
Maybe, because the innate immune system does not respond differently upon repeat infection by the same pathogen - it continues to provide the same old response - (it never learns any better).

Tex
:cowboy:

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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