Visit the Microscopic Colitis Foundation Website
I stumbled upon a blog written by a retired GI in Pennsylvania last week. He is a proponent of PREbiotics, and writes about most GI conditions, except MC! So I wrote him a message and got a prompt reply. I am going to send him the link to our Potty People community and ask that he join and post. Although he is still tied to traditional GI approaches, he seems to have a willingness to think outside the box for uncharted waters like MC, and has offered to write a blog post about MC in the coming week. His son is a practicing GI and also weighed in...with most things we've already heard. Anyway, here's our chance to correspond with an interested GI, and hopefully learn something from each other. Here is some info about him:
http://www.jacksongi.com/about-us/
I'm inviting a GI to join us
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
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MaggieRedwings
- King Penguin
- Posts: 3865
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 3:16 am
- Location: SE Pennsylvania
Well its not like we are a closed group, or you have to a selection commission to become a member, so I have no objections (and even if I would, I think he could still join, since we are an open group :-))
But I don't know how it will be for him since we are not always that friendly about some GI docs, and medicine in general.
I would be interested in prebiotics and the health effects. Personally I don't believe that much in probiotics, because like antibiotics its a disturbance of the gut bacteria balance, it can be with good bacteria, but still its unnatural. Changing food habits I think is much more healthier. And lets not forget, like the pharmaceutical industry, companies also make a lot of money out of this probiotics. On the other hand, on normal healthy (paleo) food, nobody makes a huge profit on it. Probably the same can be said about prebiotics
But I don't know how it will be for him since we are not always that friendly about some GI docs, and medicine in general.
I would be interested in prebiotics and the health effects. Personally I don't believe that much in probiotics, because like antibiotics its a disturbance of the gut bacteria balance, it can be with good bacteria, but still its unnatural. Changing food habits I think is much more healthier. And lets not forget, like the pharmaceutical industry, companies also make a lot of money out of this probiotics. On the other hand, on normal healthy (paleo) food, nobody makes a huge profit on it. Probably the same can be said about prebiotics
"As the sense of identity shifts from the imaginary person to your real being as presence awareness, the life of suffering dissolves like mist before the rising sun"
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barbaranoela
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 5394
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 6:11 pm
- Location: New York
I note that since his retirement, Dr. Jackson has chosen to specialize in research in, (and presumably, the promotion of), prebiotics, not probiotics. While probiotics and prebiotics are related, they are definitely two different topics.
As most of us know, the problem that we have found with prebiotics, is that with MC patients, at least, they promote the propagation of "bad" bacteria at least as effectively as they promote the growth of "good" bacteria. As far as I can see, this will be a very controversial topic on this board, because to date, I am aware of no one who has had any real success with using prebiotics to treat MC. For most members who have tried them, the results have been negative, (suggesting that an adverse bacterial balance exists, initially). We all know that gut bacteria issues are common with MC, but attempts to use probiotics, or prebiotics, often don't show any beneficial effects - in fact, they often make symptoms worse. Perhaps Dr. Jackson can offer some insight on ways to correct that problem.
This type of program, for example, would be counterproductive for most of us, during the recovery stages:
http://www.jacksongi.com/
IMO, prebiotics work best for generally healthy people, or at least people who are not dealing with an active IBD. For IBD cases in remission, for example, prebiotics may well be a viable option. The primary issue on this board, of course, is getting to remission, in the first place. If we can accomplish that, the rest is easy, with or without prebiotics. We all know that in many severe cases of MC, a vegetarian diet simply will not work, because the gut cannot heal without adequate protein, and most people with a severe case of MC cannot tolerate legumes, let alone soy. And, of course, most of us find that fiber in the diet has an inverse effect on us - the more fiber in the diet, the worse our symptoms. That has been our experience, but we remain open-minded, of course, and we're all here to learn.
When discussing treatment concepts, above all, (IMO), we need to keep in mind that experience trumps theory every time. This board wasn't started yesterday, and we've accumulated a vast database of what works and what doesn't work. We're always looking for new ideas, but we don't want to spend a lot of time defending our thoughts on what works and what doesn't work, or reinvent the wheel - the data speak for themselves.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we don't, for example, want to see an ad for prebiotics - we want to see valid evidence that prebiotics provide major benefits for most people who have MC, (or we want to see evidence to the contrary) - we're already well aware of the theory involved. And we're also aware that the evidence based on the accumulated experience of members here, show a negative response to prebiotics. Of course, evidence that prebiotics are beneficial for controlling the symptoms of any IBD, (or any autoimmune disease), would certainly be welcome - the evidence doesn't necessarily have to specifically address MC.
FWIW, all of the articles that I've read over the years, at gicare.com, written by Dr. Jackson, are quite excellent, and I have the utmost respect for his knowledge and insight as a gastroenterologist, (with reservations, of course, concerning his specific methods of treating MC).
Tex
As most of us know, the problem that we have found with prebiotics, is that with MC patients, at least, they promote the propagation of "bad" bacteria at least as effectively as they promote the growth of "good" bacteria. As far as I can see, this will be a very controversial topic on this board, because to date, I am aware of no one who has had any real success with using prebiotics to treat MC. For most members who have tried them, the results have been negative, (suggesting that an adverse bacterial balance exists, initially). We all know that gut bacteria issues are common with MC, but attempts to use probiotics, or prebiotics, often don't show any beneficial effects - in fact, they often make symptoms worse. Perhaps Dr. Jackson can offer some insight on ways to correct that problem.
This type of program, for example, would be counterproductive for most of us, during the recovery stages:
http://www.jacksongi.com/
IMO, prebiotics work best for generally healthy people, or at least people who are not dealing with an active IBD. For IBD cases in remission, for example, prebiotics may well be a viable option. The primary issue on this board, of course, is getting to remission, in the first place. If we can accomplish that, the rest is easy, with or without prebiotics. We all know that in many severe cases of MC, a vegetarian diet simply will not work, because the gut cannot heal without adequate protein, and most people with a severe case of MC cannot tolerate legumes, let alone soy. And, of course, most of us find that fiber in the diet has an inverse effect on us - the more fiber in the diet, the worse our symptoms. That has been our experience, but we remain open-minded, of course, and we're all here to learn.
When discussing treatment concepts, above all, (IMO), we need to keep in mind that experience trumps theory every time. This board wasn't started yesterday, and we've accumulated a vast database of what works and what doesn't work. We're always looking for new ideas, but we don't want to spend a lot of time defending our thoughts on what works and what doesn't work, or reinvent the wheel - the data speak for themselves.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we don't, for example, want to see an ad for prebiotics - we want to see valid evidence that prebiotics provide major benefits for most people who have MC, (or we want to see evidence to the contrary) - we're already well aware of the theory involved. And we're also aware that the evidence based on the accumulated experience of members here, show a negative response to prebiotics. Of course, evidence that prebiotics are beneficial for controlling the symptoms of any IBD, (or any autoimmune disease), would certainly be welcome - the evidence doesn't necessarily have to specifically address MC.
FWIW, all of the articles that I've read over the years, at gicare.com, written by Dr. Jackson, are quite excellent, and I have the utmost respect for his knowledge and insight as a gastroenterologist, (with reservations, of course, concerning his specific methods of treating MC).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex thank you for your insights and explanation on the relationship between prebiotics and MC. This board is so valuable and its so great so many things have already been tried out here, so as an individual mc'er we don't have to go all those trials and errors again.
"As the sense of identity shifts from the imaginary person to your real being as presence awareness, the life of suffering dissolves like mist before the rising sun"