Visit the Microscopic Colitis Foundation Website
Wheat forage, (the entire plants, while young), can have over 30% protein, but like soybeans, if cattle are allowed to eat it free choice, it's so "hot" for their digestive system, that it will cause severe D.
Depending on moisture content, and fat content, jerky can be made from many red meats, with between 50% and 70 % Protein.
Tex
Getting enough protein
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Z,
As a dietitian I prefer to think of the protein content of foods by percentage of calories (vs weight). This list is from Dr. Cordain's book.
Skinless turkey breast: 94%
Boiled shrimp 90%
Red snapper 87%
Broiled halibut 80%
Broiled tuna 68%
Sirloin beef steak 65%
Skinless chicken breast 63%
Broiled salmon 62%
Lean pork chops 62%
Leam lamb chops 49%
Ground beef (85% lean) 35%
Eggs 34%
Bacon 21%
Hot dog 14%
Nuts contain some protein but are very high in fat (omega 6). Eating too many nuts unbalances the omega6:omega 3 ratio.
Mary Beth
As a dietitian I prefer to think of the protein content of foods by percentage of calories (vs weight). This list is from Dr. Cordain's book.
Skinless turkey breast: 94%
Boiled shrimp 90%
Red snapper 87%
Broiled halibut 80%
Broiled tuna 68%
Sirloin beef steak 65%
Skinless chicken breast 63%
Broiled salmon 62%
Lean pork chops 62%
Leam lamb chops 49%
Ground beef (85% lean) 35%
Eggs 34%
Bacon 21%
Hot dog 14%
Nuts contain some protein but are very high in fat (omega 6). Eating too many nuts unbalances the omega6:omega 3 ratio.
Mary Beth
"If you believe it will work out, you'll see opportunities. If you believe it won't you will see obstacles." - Dr. Wayne Dyer
-
Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8367
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
i have found if i have some protein each time i eat, then i dont eat as much.
i always have pieces of chicken cooked in the fridge and my morning tea at work is GF/SF/YF crackers with some of the chicken.
I have used this snack when travelling, (road and air) and when i have to travel to meetings or take my foods for a work lunch etc.
Given MaryBeths list above i might swap across to Turkey.
i always have pieces of chicken cooked in the fridge and my morning tea at work is GF/SF/YF crackers with some of the chicken.
I have used this snack when travelling, (road and air) and when i have to travel to meetings or take my foods for a work lunch etc.
Given MaryBeths list above i might swap across to Turkey.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Mary Beth and all you protein-interested smart people,
This conversation took such an interesting turn when I was away a few days. I am definitely avoiding 'excess' carbs, and eating a much meatier diet than I have in years. It makes a huge difference in how I feel, including mood, so I'm planning to stick with it, for now. I do use fitday.com for checking food composition, but not yet for daily logging. Mary Beth, if you recommend another program/web site, or another approach, I am very receptive to your suggestions.
I think 2.5 is doable, but I honestly don't know whether it's the right number. I read a quote in passing from Robb Wolf, who's a Paleo guy, when asked about what to eliminate for autoimmune conditions... and he said
The problem with the grain/bean proteins is... you have to be able to eat/digest them to use that protein, without disastrous side effects (and not just digestive - the whole autoimmune thing). I know I can't, and believe a lot of people who think they can are just not sufficiently symptomatic to be persuaded - at their peril.
About "doing the math" - sometimes I know exactly what I ate, and sometimes it's hard to figure. Even when I know the exact amount of ounces I've eaten from a pound of meat, the difference between lean meat and fattier meat is something I can only generalize. My lunch portion had either 29g of protein, or 39. BIG difference!
Either way, I didn't have 2.5g protein/kg body weight today. I'm also not in a health crisis. I hope that this conversation reminds me to up my protein, should I ever have a tailspin... Meantime, I'm going to try to think both in terms of percentages (fat/carb/protein ratios) and also of total protein, just to get my confusion up to speed till I can form a better question.
Thanks, all, for engaging this. It has been useful for me, and I hope also for others,
Sara
This conversation took such an interesting turn when I was away a few days. I am definitely avoiding 'excess' carbs, and eating a much meatier diet than I have in years. It makes a huge difference in how I feel, including mood, so I'm planning to stick with it, for now. I do use fitday.com for checking food composition, but not yet for daily logging. Mary Beth, if you recommend another program/web site, or another approach, I am very receptive to your suggestions.
I think 2.5 is doable, but I honestly don't know whether it's the right number. I read a quote in passing from Robb Wolf, who's a Paleo guy, when asked about what to eliminate for autoimmune conditions... and he said
I don't know that he's right (but for sure, he's given it more thought and looked at more data than I have). And I don't know that I fit his idea of "really sick" - but this advice is so similar to what we know works, and other than giant helpings of potato chips, I'm already heading down a paleo path, and glad of it. My husband eats a broader diet, and has much more 'need' for ice cream (So Delicious coconut version), and considers chocolate (dairy-free, soy-free, expensive) to be a basic staple diet item. I believe that not eating those things makes it easier not to need them, and that goes about triple-time for grains. So... I am torn.Grains, legumes, dairy, nightshades (tomatoes, potatoes, peppers) most nuts & seeds (coconut ok). If you are really sick, cook all vegetable matter thoroughly, peel most vegetables and recognize that an almost total animal product diet may be necessary until you are well.
The problem with the grain/bean proteins is... you have to be able to eat/digest them to use that protein, without disastrous side effects (and not just digestive - the whole autoimmune thing). I know I can't, and believe a lot of people who think they can are just not sufficiently symptomatic to be persuaded - at their peril.
About "doing the math" - sometimes I know exactly what I ate, and sometimes it's hard to figure. Even when I know the exact amount of ounces I've eaten from a pound of meat, the difference between lean meat and fattier meat is something I can only generalize. My lunch portion had either 29g of protein, or 39. BIG difference!
Either way, I didn't have 2.5g protein/kg body weight today. I'm also not in a health crisis. I hope that this conversation reminds me to up my protein, should I ever have a tailspin... Meantime, I'm going to try to think both in terms of percentages (fat/carb/protein ratios) and also of total protein, just to get my confusion up to speed till I can form a better question.
Thanks, all, for engaging this. It has been useful for me, and I hope also for others,
Sara
I've been meaning to follow up this topic, but have been waiting till I get to some firm conclusion. That doesn't appear to be imminent, so I'll just chat a little for now... and maybe restart this conversation when I'm clearer what path I'm on, and how it's going.
I've not been tracking every single thing I eat - and not only out of laziness, but because so many of those things are hard to measure. I've bought beef that lists a much higher level of protein on the package than what fitday.com has in the database for the same cut - and that could well be accurate, as grass-fed beef is often leaner, which could easily translate to a higher percentage of protein. Sometimes it's hard to know just how many ounces of meat I've eaten, if I'm eating out, or having leftovers at home. This is one of the reasons why my 'meat cupcakes' have been helpful, because one represents a pretty accurate 'dosage.' Each uses 1/6 of a pound or ground meat; the amount of protein per 'dose' varies depending whether it's a leaner or fattier meat. One is a good snack for me, and two or three can be a meal, depending on how active/hungry my day has been, and what else is on the menu.
As far as my overall protein intake: I've been looking the "protein foods only" sums, for a few days. I think it's a rare day that I eat more than 2g/kg of protein. I think I could, and might well do so, if I were feeling sicker (so would be less inclined to eat fruits/veg/potato chips). I haven't done the math on how much protein the pistachios add to my meat cupcakes (or the coconut flour) - except in a cursory way, enough to be pretty sure that it's not shifting me from pretty-high protein to very-high.
There are days when I have more than 2g/kg - yesterday my "protein foods" added up to almost exactly 2g/kg (meat cupcakes, fish for lunch, dinner steak). And even my beloved potato chips have *some* protein, but including those and the contribution of other foods, it was probably still short of 2.5g/kg.
So... I'm content that this has been useful for now, and that it's worth it to keep looking at this from time to time. I would certainly consider focusing on increasing protein further in case of injury, illness, or surgery. (So I guess I'm saying, I hope it doesn't come to that!) In the meantime, I'm going to focus on honing my general skills at keeping my food and symptoms diary.
Thanks all, for the many interesting thoughts and ideas along the way here - it's been very helpful for me.
All my best,
Sara
I've not been tracking every single thing I eat - and not only out of laziness, but because so many of those things are hard to measure. I've bought beef that lists a much higher level of protein on the package than what fitday.com has in the database for the same cut - and that could well be accurate, as grass-fed beef is often leaner, which could easily translate to a higher percentage of protein. Sometimes it's hard to know just how many ounces of meat I've eaten, if I'm eating out, or having leftovers at home. This is one of the reasons why my 'meat cupcakes' have been helpful, because one represents a pretty accurate 'dosage.' Each uses 1/6 of a pound or ground meat; the amount of protein per 'dose' varies depending whether it's a leaner or fattier meat. One is a good snack for me, and two or three can be a meal, depending on how active/hungry my day has been, and what else is on the menu.
As far as my overall protein intake: I've been looking the "protein foods only" sums, for a few days. I think it's a rare day that I eat more than 2g/kg of protein. I think I could, and might well do so, if I were feeling sicker (so would be less inclined to eat fruits/veg/potato chips). I haven't done the math on how much protein the pistachios add to my meat cupcakes (or the coconut flour) - except in a cursory way, enough to be pretty sure that it's not shifting me from pretty-high protein to very-high.
There are days when I have more than 2g/kg - yesterday my "protein foods" added up to almost exactly 2g/kg (meat cupcakes, fish for lunch, dinner steak). And even my beloved potato chips have *some* protein, but including those and the contribution of other foods, it was probably still short of 2.5g/kg.
So... I'm content that this has been useful for now, and that it's worth it to keep looking at this from time to time. I would certainly consider focusing on increasing protein further in case of injury, illness, or surgery. (So I guess I'm saying, I hope it doesn't come to that!) In the meantime, I'm going to focus on honing my general skills at keeping my food and symptoms diary.
Thanks all, for the many interesting thoughts and ideas along the way here - it's been very helpful for me.
All my best,
Sara
What a fascinating discussion - and so helpful right when I'm in a flare again. I'll be upping my protein intake even more now. I was able to find pasture-raised chicken thighs at Whole Foods for $2.99/pound - and it goes down to $2.49/lb if you buy more than 3 lbs at a time. Lucky me!
Does anyone know what "adequate amounts of fat" might mean, though? And Sara, do you mind pointing me to your meat cupcake recipes?
Thanks!
Does anyone know what "adequate amounts of fat" might mean, though? And Sara, do you mind pointing me to your meat cupcake recipes?
Thanks!
Beth, sorry to hear you're in a flare.
(That's a great price for pastured chicken - nice find!)
Here's a quick how-to for the meat cupcakes, which have been a very variable recipe - since it and my list of intolerances are kind of in flux, I haven't done rigorous measuring.
They are they have no dairy, no legumes or grains, and no eggs... the rest is very flexible:
2 pounds of ground meat - we have used turkey, chicken, lamb and beef (chicken will need some added fat to make it work; I have used coconut oil, but mostly we just don't make this with ground chicken)
We saute chopped carrots and onions in a little oil, then add it to the ground meat, along with several optional items - your choice, and you can vary it according to the 'cuisine' you feel like eating:
chopped pistachios (could be other nuts - esp. nice with turkey)
chopped olives (esp. nice with lamb, and maybe some oregano)
coconut flour - we 'wing it' to get a more meatloaf, less burger consistency, using more or less depending on the meat
sometimes we sprinkle some coconut aminos (no soy, no wheat, nice flavor)
Grease muffin tins (which, of course, are *never* used for gluten baking!!) with coconut oil (or your preferred safe oil), form and bake @350 for 25 minutes. We put a 'dimple' or thumbprint in each one, because we read somewhere that it makes them cook more evenly. Seems to work.... Makes 12.
When we get the recipe a little more buttoned down, I'll post it to Dee's Kitchen, with some of our favorite flavor combos.
Meantime, feel better!
Sara
(That's a great price for pastured chicken - nice find!)
Here's a quick how-to for the meat cupcakes, which have been a very variable recipe - since it and my list of intolerances are kind of in flux, I haven't done rigorous measuring.
They are they have no dairy, no legumes or grains, and no eggs... the rest is very flexible:
2 pounds of ground meat - we have used turkey, chicken, lamb and beef (chicken will need some added fat to make it work; I have used coconut oil, but mostly we just don't make this with ground chicken)
We saute chopped carrots and onions in a little oil, then add it to the ground meat, along with several optional items - your choice, and you can vary it according to the 'cuisine' you feel like eating:
chopped pistachios (could be other nuts - esp. nice with turkey)
chopped olives (esp. nice with lamb, and maybe some oregano)
coconut flour - we 'wing it' to get a more meatloaf, less burger consistency, using more or less depending on the meat
sometimes we sprinkle some coconut aminos (no soy, no wheat, nice flavor)
Grease muffin tins (which, of course, are *never* used for gluten baking!!) with coconut oil (or your preferred safe oil), form and bake @350 for 25 minutes. We put a 'dimple' or thumbprint in each one, because we read somewhere that it makes them cook more evenly. Seems to work.... Makes 12.
When we get the recipe a little more buttoned down, I'll post it to Dee's Kitchen, with some of our favorite flavor combos.
Meantime, feel better!
Sara
This thread has had me thinking since it first appeared. I've reread it several times and wonder if some of you might be able to help me sort out what changes I need to make and how to go about making them. Pre MC, in Jan of this year I decided I needed to get more protein in my vegetarian diet and began a concerted effort to do so, upping my intake of soy protein meat substitutes, eggs and cheese. At the most in that time my protein intake got to about 28% of daily calories. Since MC and going GF I've had to eliminate my normal veggie products since they all contain gluten. My protein intake has varied between 11% and 18% of total daily calories. (I track my food intake on a Lose It! app.) I know I need more protein, but I've been a vegetarian for almost 20 years now, mainly because I know our meat and poultry processing leaves a lot to be desired. Also, I was never that big a fan of beef before I went veggie. I do eat seafood on occasion, maybe 3-4 times per month, and limited to shrimp, scallops and salmon. I know the only reason I still eat seafood is because I don't know anything about how that is processed; if I did I'd probably want to avoid that too. So, given my phobias about meat processing, what would you suggest I look for if I want to add more protein? Can I believe the claims on poultry in the grocery if it says its organic, antibiotic free, cage free, etc? My MC was NSAID induced and since I've stopped the NSAIDs I'm in remission and can eat most anything....except fried foods or oily foods. Currently my main sources of protein are peanut butter, greek yogurt, beans, eggs and some seafood.
Thanks to all of you on this board. The collective wisdom here is amazing!
Thanks to all of you on this board. The collective wisdom here is amazing!
Katie,
GOOD FOR YOU, doing such a meticulous job tracking what you're eating. That will help you all kinds of ways - it's really a struggle for me, to continue tracking at a detailed level day after day - especially when I'm feeling good (and happily, have my mind on other things).
I'm not sure everyone needs the same amount of protein. Those high numbers of protein grams per kilo of body weight were for people in a health crisis. If you are experiencing remission, and able to eat a wide variety of foods - maybe you don't need to crank your protein level higher. If you are feeling fatigued or have other non-MC reasons to believe your protein is inadequate, either by percentage or in total, that's another story. I was focused on this, because I lost weight and a ton of muscle mass, and though NSAIDs were one factor in my original MC episode, I clearly have major food intolerances. If you can eat eggs, and can find a source that you believe is ethical (some great local farmstand?) - I think it's the best food on earth, and have a date with myself to attempt to reintroduce them into my diet. Fingers crossed.
I don't know that the soy-growing and -processing makes me feel much better than the meat processing. I was a vegetarian for many years, and now I am not sure that the reasoning I believed, environmentally, was entirely sound. We now go out of our way to find pasture-raised meats and are lucky to have decent resources for this. That leaves some ethical considerations unaddressed. I am eating a lot more beef than I have in decades - partly because we have access to beef that I consider trustworthy (local, grass-fed, no hormones, pasture-raised, etc.). It is not my favorite thing, on many levels.
Costco has canned wild salmon, which is a good pantry staple (it helps to have a protein source that's not fresh or frozen). You could expand beyond peanut butter to almond butter, cashew butter, etc... Hemp and chia seeds are reputed to have a better balance of omega 3/6 fatty acids than many other nuts/seeds (we use hemp milk in smoothies). I am avoiding all legumes - but mixing it up with chickpeas or lentils can really up your protein.
I think you're asking great questions - I expect that from both ethical and health concerns, they're the kinds of questions that merit asking again and again, as marketing practices change and various sensational articles pop up in the media.
I am still pondering for myself - I hope these rambling thoughts help with your own pondering,
Sara
GOOD FOR YOU, doing such a meticulous job tracking what you're eating. That will help you all kinds of ways - it's really a struggle for me, to continue tracking at a detailed level day after day - especially when I'm feeling good (and happily, have my mind on other things).
I'm not sure everyone needs the same amount of protein. Those high numbers of protein grams per kilo of body weight were for people in a health crisis. If you are experiencing remission, and able to eat a wide variety of foods - maybe you don't need to crank your protein level higher. If you are feeling fatigued or have other non-MC reasons to believe your protein is inadequate, either by percentage or in total, that's another story. I was focused on this, because I lost weight and a ton of muscle mass, and though NSAIDs were one factor in my original MC episode, I clearly have major food intolerances. If you can eat eggs, and can find a source that you believe is ethical (some great local farmstand?) - I think it's the best food on earth, and have a date with myself to attempt to reintroduce them into my diet. Fingers crossed.
I don't know that the soy-growing and -processing makes me feel much better than the meat processing. I was a vegetarian for many years, and now I am not sure that the reasoning I believed, environmentally, was entirely sound. We now go out of our way to find pasture-raised meats and are lucky to have decent resources for this. That leaves some ethical considerations unaddressed. I am eating a lot more beef than I have in decades - partly because we have access to beef that I consider trustworthy (local, grass-fed, no hormones, pasture-raised, etc.). It is not my favorite thing, on many levels.
Costco has canned wild salmon, which is a good pantry staple (it helps to have a protein source that's not fresh or frozen). You could expand beyond peanut butter to almond butter, cashew butter, etc... Hemp and chia seeds are reputed to have a better balance of omega 3/6 fatty acids than many other nuts/seeds (we use hemp milk in smoothies). I am avoiding all legumes - but mixing it up with chickpeas or lentils can really up your protein.
I think you're asking great questions - I expect that from both ethical and health concerns, they're the kinds of questions that merit asking again and again, as marketing practices change and various sensational articles pop up in the media.
I am still pondering for myself - I hope these rambling thoughts help with your own pondering,
Sara
Katie,
If you're eating soy and aren't bothered by it, you might be able to tolerate quinoa. It's a complete protein and has 6 grams in 1/4 cup. Here's a website with nutritional information and some recipes:
http://www.quinoa.net/199.html
Gloria
If you're eating soy and aren't bothered by it, you might be able to tolerate quinoa. It's a complete protein and has 6 grams in 1/4 cup. Here's a website with nutritional information and some recipes:
http://www.quinoa.net/199.html
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Katy,
That's good news that avoiding NSAIDs seems to be the key to preventing your MC symptoms. Your situation brings to mind the experience of another Katy on this board, (kate_ce1995). She is a founding member here, who started with the "family" many years ago back on the old original board. Anyway, as best I can recall her history, I believe that she avoided dairy, but other than that, as long as she avoided NSAIDs, she seemed to do OK with gluten, soy, etc. Years later, (this is just a wild guess, because she joined a couple of years before I did, but I'm guessing somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 to 6 years after she joined the original board), she discovered that she could no longer eat gluten without reacting. I hesitate to mention this, because I certainly don't want to worry you unnecessarily, but I thought that you should be aware of the possibility, in case your symptoms ever return, somewhere down the line.
As to your protein needs, (this is just my opinion, of course), I agree with Sara. If you can safely eat legumes, and your recovery is going well, you might already be getting plenty protein in your diet. Be sure you're taking a multivitamin, and keep an eye on your vitamin needs in general, since meat is the only food that contains a complete set of all the amino acids that are necessary to sustain life.
Tex
That's good news that avoiding NSAIDs seems to be the key to preventing your MC symptoms. Your situation brings to mind the experience of another Katy on this board, (kate_ce1995). She is a founding member here, who started with the "family" many years ago back on the old original board. Anyway, as best I can recall her history, I believe that she avoided dairy, but other than that, as long as she avoided NSAIDs, she seemed to do OK with gluten, soy, etc. Years later, (this is just a wild guess, because she joined a couple of years before I did, but I'm guessing somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 to 6 years after she joined the original board), she discovered that she could no longer eat gluten without reacting. I hesitate to mention this, because I certainly don't want to worry you unnecessarily, but I thought that you should be aware of the possibility, in case your symptoms ever return, somewhere down the line.
As to your protein needs, (this is just my opinion, of course), I agree with Sara. If you can safely eat legumes, and your recovery is going well, you might already be getting plenty protein in your diet. Be sure you're taking a multivitamin, and keep an eye on your vitamin needs in general, since meat is the only food that contains a complete set of all the amino acids that are necessary to sustain life.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Sara, thanks for your well thought out ramblings. I had never thought about the soy processing, but I'm sure it, like everything highly processed has it's issues. My concern with protein is mainly due to the fact that I lost over 25 lbs in a 5-6 week period before being diagnosed and learning the NSAID's were the issue. I needed to lose the weight but would never recommend MC as a weight loss program! I know that took a toll on my body and I still have issues with inflammation that I'm dealing with and hope they will improve as I continue GF. I've been wondering if adding more protein would help with the inflammation. I've been talking with DH and we've decided to go to Whole Foods this weekend to see if they have some local, ethically grown poultry that I could try.
Gloria, thanks for the quinoa link. I've read about it but have been a bit intimidated by it; not sure why. The link has some excellent sounding recipes and instructions on preparation. I just may have to pick some up at Whole Foods when we're there and do some experimentation.
I hope you both have a wonderful weekend!
Katie
Gloria, thanks for the quinoa link. I've read about it but have been a bit intimidated by it; not sure why. The link has some excellent sounding recipes and instructions on preparation. I just may have to pick some up at Whole Foods when we're there and do some experimentation.
I hope you both have a wonderful weekend!
Katie
Ah, yes, the MC weight loss program! I don't recommend it, either 
I had a few pounds to spare, but wasn't overweight... I was lucky I stopped the weight loss before I wound up underweight. After your 25lb weight loss, and with active inflammation, I can see why you're concerned with protein (though I don't claim I know how much is enough).
I really liked quinoa! I reacted to it when I was first sick (but I reacted to everything at that point - not sure it was to blame). I've never gone back and tried again, but it is definitely worth a try, and I hope it agrees with you. You can make nice salads with it, as well as pilaf-like dishes. We're lucky to have decent access to local, pasture-raised, cruelty-free meats - so much more than was the case even just a few years ago. I hope you find some good options. And I wish you good health and good healing,
Sara
I had a few pounds to spare, but wasn't overweight... I was lucky I stopped the weight loss before I wound up underweight. After your 25lb weight loss, and with active inflammation, I can see why you're concerned with protein (though I don't claim I know how much is enough). I really liked quinoa! I reacted to it when I was first sick (but I reacted to everything at that point - not sure it was to blame). I've never gone back and tried again, but it is definitely worth a try, and I hope it agrees with you. You can make nice salads with it, as well as pilaf-like dishes. We're lucky to have decent access to local, pasture-raised, cruelty-free meats - so much more than was the case even just a few years ago. I hope you find some good options. And I wish you good health and good healing,
Sara