Visit the Microscopic Colitis Foundation Website
I am suddenly feeling joint pain and it is making me very nervous. Has anyone else had this. Why does it happen and what do you do about it? Is it dangerous?
It's weird because I had the CC for a year already and never experienced this before.
joint pain
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
joint pain
Belle
Hi Belle,
That means that your digestive system problems have been going on long enough that you have now developed the leaky gut syndrome, (LGS). LGS provides a way for partially digested peptides of the gluten molecule to pass through the tight junctions in the epithelial layer of your intestine, allowing them to enter the bloodstream, where they can be carried to all parts of the body, and deposited in joints, muscle, organs, etc. Once LGS becomes a problem, it can become worse, unless it is addressed early on, because the longer it continues, the more easily it can be triggered. And once it is triggered, various other peptides, (besides gluten), will usually leak into the bloodstream, as well. When they wind up in joints, they cause an arthritis-like inflammation, resulting in the symptom that you describe. When they are deposited in muscle tissue, they cause muscle pain, sometimes resulting in a diagnosis of fibromyalgia. When they are deposited in the brain, they can result in brain fog, ataxia, and other neurological symptoms.
It's not good, of course, but it's not necessarily dangerous, either, since it can be corrected, by carefully following a diet that avoids all your food-sensitivities. It takes time for a leaky gut to heal, but after you control all your MC symptoms, the LGS will usually resolve, as part of the recovery. LGS can also be caused by issues such as the overindulgence of alcohol or sugar, but I'm assuming that's not likely the problem, in your case. In your case, your LGS is probably due to the inflammation associated with MC. It can also be caused by a yeast overgrowth, (Candida albicans), but that 's usually associated with a high-sugar, or high-carb diet.
Carefully controlling your diet, will eliminate your joint pain, and prevent it from happening in the future.
Tex
That means that your digestive system problems have been going on long enough that you have now developed the leaky gut syndrome, (LGS). LGS provides a way for partially digested peptides of the gluten molecule to pass through the tight junctions in the epithelial layer of your intestine, allowing them to enter the bloodstream, where they can be carried to all parts of the body, and deposited in joints, muscle, organs, etc. Once LGS becomes a problem, it can become worse, unless it is addressed early on, because the longer it continues, the more easily it can be triggered. And once it is triggered, various other peptides, (besides gluten), will usually leak into the bloodstream, as well. When they wind up in joints, they cause an arthritis-like inflammation, resulting in the symptom that you describe. When they are deposited in muscle tissue, they cause muscle pain, sometimes resulting in a diagnosis of fibromyalgia. When they are deposited in the brain, they can result in brain fog, ataxia, and other neurological symptoms.
It's not good, of course, but it's not necessarily dangerous, either, since it can be corrected, by carefully following a diet that avoids all your food-sensitivities. It takes time for a leaky gut to heal, but after you control all your MC symptoms, the LGS will usually resolve, as part of the recovery. LGS can also be caused by issues such as the overindulgence of alcohol or sugar, but I'm assuming that's not likely the problem, in your case. In your case, your LGS is probably due to the inflammation associated with MC. It can also be caused by a yeast overgrowth, (Candida albicans), but that 's usually associated with a high-sugar, or high-carb diet.
Carefully controlling your diet, will eliminate your joint pain, and prevent it from happening in the future.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
It's interesting that it started after I went GF and DF. Also why did dr.s not warn me of this. They basically just sent me home and said if you are managing with your MC then you can just continue on and foget about, which is what I have been doing for almost a year. this is crazy! I feel like my life is falling apart. How does everyone cope?
Belle
Belle,
Hang in there. We've all been there, and, for many of us, it takes a long time to get in control. GF and DF might not be enough. You might have to cut out other foods. I have to be rice free, CF, SF, and other foods, including poultry. Once you cut your diet to the basics for a little while it's easier to tell what is causing a reaction.
Not EASY, mind you, at least not for me, but easier.
Today I seem to have taken a step backwards. I need to return to square one, and figure out what caused it this time. I haven't added much, but, because of my GERD, I have been sucking on rock candy. WAY too much sugar. Yesterday I tried chewing just TWO sticks of gum all day instead of much of the sugar. And today? Mucous, pain and a little blood in the mucous.
That isn't a solution.
Docs warn you? They won't because they don't believe there is such a thing as LGS, or a connection between diet and these problems. Stupid, but who said going through med school takes an ability to put 2+2 together to make 4? For most of them all they needed was a good memory and a strong stomach. Thinking isn't part of it..
Hang in there. We've all been there, and, for many of us, it takes a long time to get in control. GF and DF might not be enough. You might have to cut out other foods. I have to be rice free, CF, SF, and other foods, including poultry. Once you cut your diet to the basics for a little while it's easier to tell what is causing a reaction.
Not EASY, mind you, at least not for me, but easier.
Today I seem to have taken a step backwards. I need to return to square one, and figure out what caused it this time. I haven't added much, but, because of my GERD, I have been sucking on rock candy. WAY too much sugar. Yesterday I tried chewing just TWO sticks of gum all day instead of much of the sugar. And today? Mucous, pain and a little blood in the mucous.
That isn't a solution.
Docs warn you? They won't because they don't believe there is such a thing as LGS, or a connection between diet and these problems. Stupid, but who said going through med school takes an ability to put 2+2 together to make 4? For most of them all they needed was a good memory and a strong stomach. Thinking isn't part of it..
Lesley is correct. Most doctors are not familiar with the leaky gut syndrome, and the ones who are, are not aware that it's commonly associated with MC.Belle wrote:It's interesting that it started after I went GF and DF. Also why did dr.s not warn me of this.
If you spend time reading on this board, and learning the information that's available here, after a few months, you will probably know more about living with MC, and controlling it, than 90% of the GI specialists in the world.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
That's the main problem with commercial GF products - they replace the carbs in wheat, with carbs from other grains. It's much better to eat whole foods, (such as meats, eggs, potatoes, sweet potatoes, quinoa, buckwheat, etc.), rather than processed foods made from grains. Adequate protein in the diet is important to help with healing the intestines.Belle wrote:I was afraid to eat fruits and veggies and even protein b/c I had a flair so I was not eating much besides all the gluten free products which are all carbs and sugar. So now what?
As long as you don't have a yeast overgrowth, though, carbs are not likely to cause any problems, (except for carbs from wheat, rye, barley, and oats, of course). If you should happen to have a yeast overgrowth, you would have symptoms such as thrush on your tongue, anal itching, frequently recurring vaginal yeast infections, etc.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Belle,
I'm age 50 and my joint pain was so severe I couldn't walk around the grocery store. 8-10 weeks later on modified diet my joint pain is gone. Suggest protein at least 3 times per day. Cooked veggies 3 to 8 times per day. Add a some fruit when you can tolerate it. Quinoia, potatoes or sweet potatoes occasionally. Potato chips on occasion from the health food section of grocery store (2 ingredients.)
Cook with coconut oil and olive oil.
You will need to eat frequently and make generous use of olive oil to maintain your calories so as not to lose weight.
After about 8 weeks on this regimen I had zero joint pain. There are also some good books on the market regarding healing ulcerative colitis and crone's disease through diet. I found these books helpful.
The "boxed" gluten free products at grocery store can cause inflammation which like Tex says creates the joint pain. Eat anything that "comes in a box" or bag even if labeled "gluten free" either in exteme moderation or preferrably not at all.
Hope this helps. Brandy.
I'm age 50 and my joint pain was so severe I couldn't walk around the grocery store. 8-10 weeks later on modified diet my joint pain is gone. Suggest protein at least 3 times per day. Cooked veggies 3 to 8 times per day. Add a some fruit when you can tolerate it. Quinoia, potatoes or sweet potatoes occasionally. Potato chips on occasion from the health food section of grocery store (2 ingredients.)
Cook with coconut oil and olive oil.
You will need to eat frequently and make generous use of olive oil to maintain your calories so as not to lose weight.
After about 8 weeks on this regimen I had zero joint pain. There are also some good books on the market regarding healing ulcerative colitis and crone's disease through diet. I found these books helpful.
The "boxed" gluten free products at grocery store can cause inflammation which like Tex says creates the joint pain. Eat anything that "comes in a box" or bag even if labeled "gluten free" either in exteme moderation or preferrably not at all.
Hope this helps. Brandy.
Tex,leaky gut syndrome, (LGS). LGS provides a way for partially digested peptides of the gluten molecule to pass through the tight junctions in the epithelial layer of your intestine, allowing them to enter the bloodstream, where they can be carried to all parts of the body, and deposited in joints, muscle, organs, etc. Once LGS becomes a problem, it can become worse, unless it is addressed early on, because the longer it continues, the more easily it can be triggered. And once it is triggered, various other peptides, (besides gluten), will usually leak into the bloodstream, as well. When they wind up in joints, they cause an arthritis-like inflammation, resulting in the symptom that you describe. When they are deposited in muscle tissue, they cause muscle pain, sometimes resulting in a diagnosis of fibromyalgia. When they are deposited in the brain, they can result in brain fog, ataxia, and other neurological symptoms.
It's not good, of course, but it's not necessarily dangerous, either, since it can be corrected, by carefully following a diet that avoids all your food-sensitivities. It takes time for a leaky gut to heal, but after you control all your MC symptoms, the LGS will usually resolve, as part of the recovery. LGS can also be caused by issues such as the overindulgence of alcohol or sugar, but I'm assuming that's not likely the problem, in your case. In your case, your LGS is probably due to the inflammation associated with MC. It can also be caused by a yeast overgrowth, (Candida albicans), but that 's usually associated with a high-sugar, or high-carb diet.
Carefully controlling your diet, will eliminate your joint pain, and prevent it from happening in the future.
That is a great description of LGS, thank you. Isn't LGS the reason we all develop MC in the first place? Don't we require a leaky gut to allow gluten, casein and other food peptides into the bloodstream so they can be presented to our immune system to determine if they are friend or foe? The way I see it, the immune system then decides they are an enemy and sets up an army (T-lymphocytes) at the intestinal mucosal barrier, to mount the attack on these foreign invaders. Then you have MC (well, LC at least). You can decrease the concentration of T-lymphocytes in the mucosa by carefully avoiding your food intolerances and achieveing "remission"...I suppose the T-lymphocytes take a breather and find somewhere else to go then, only to be summoned when you accidentally ingest the enemy proteins?
I'm trying to figure out why IBS, IBDs, fibromyalgia, RA and lupus-like diseases happen much more frequently among people with Ehlers-Danlos Symdrome (EDS - weak/abnormal connective tissue). My working hypothesis is that our weak connective tissue predisposes us to leaky gut syndrome. What I'm unsure of is whether the leaky gut issue is only allowing food proteins in, or if certain bacteria and viruses are also making their way into our system.To add insult to injury, I think our weak and "porous" connective tissue gives food proteins, bacteria and viruses an easier place to attach and take up residence, namely in our joints, but virtually anywhere. Normal collagen might be more sturdy and resistant to foreign invasion, but weak collagen doesn't stand a chance.
Am I making any sense?
I was lucky to have put a halt to most of my joint pain on the GF/DF diet. Interestingly, my worst pain was in my hips and lower back - my problem EDS joints, but also the joints closest to the GI system. What was left was the joint pain, cracking and popping I've lived with all my life. It's so normal to me, I barely consider it pain. I hope I'm able to keep it that way. Most people with EDS live on a dizzying array of heavy-duty pain medications. I wonder how many have tried diet manipulation instead? Sigh. Probably not enough before it was too late.
I believe that's true for a lot of us, (that the LGS comes first, and the MC is secondary to it), but not everyone with MC has LGS, as evidenced by their total lack of symptoms other than watery D. Also, remember that the antibodies are produced in the gut, (apparently not in the blood), because stool tests can be used to detect gluten-sensitivity, for example, at least several years before the antibodies will show up in the blood at a level high enough to trigger a positive test result, even for a true celiac.Zizzle wrote:Isn't LGS the reason we all develop MC in the first place? Don't we require a leaky gut to allow gluten, casein and other food peptides into the bloodstream so they can be presented to our immune system to determine if they are friend or foe?
The connection is that all those diseases are connective tissue diseases, and that also includes CC, (collagen is connective tissue), so obviously, LC must be included in the group as well, since CC and LC are equivalent, (they often segue from one to the other). (Well, IBS isn't necessarily a connective tissue disease, since it doesn't actually exist, but if it were properly diagnosed, it would be).Zizzle wrote:I'm trying to figure out why IBS, IBDs, fibromyalgia, RA and lupus-like diseases happen much more frequently among people with Ehlers-Danlos Symdrome (EDS - weak/abnormal connective tissue).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Apparently, he never reads any of Dr. Fasano's research articles. Dr. Fasano is not from Canada - he's originally from Italy, but he's currently regarded as the foremost celiac researcher, located at the University of Maryland, Medical Center. Or maybe your doctor just doesn't believe anything that he reads. It's going to be pretty tough for him to learn anything new, if he doesn't believe anything that he reads.
Here are a couple of articles from Dr. Fasano, about leaky gut.
And an earlier article:
Tex
Here are a couple of articles from Dr. Fasano, about leaky gut.
http://celiaccenter.org/documents/publi ... 202006.pdfThis also implies that gliadin should activate the zonulin system irrespective of the genetic predisposition to autoimmunity. Our results obtained on intestinal tissues from both CD and non-CD patients (Figure 5) support this theory. Nevertheless, zonulin is markedly up-regulated in subjects affected by CD, even when treated with a gluten-free diet (Figure 5A). This up-regulation is associated with increased baseline gut permeability (Figure 5B), and an increased amplitude and duration of gluten induced zonulin release when compared with non-CD intestinal samples.
And an earlier article:
http://journals.lww.com/jpgn/Fulltext/2 ... p.188.aspxConclusion: Zonulin is structurally and functionally similar, but not identical, to MCP-II and may represent one of the possible intestinal luminal PAR-2 activators involved in the pathophysiological regulation of intercellular tight junctions.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Lesley,
I'll try to do a detail post this weekend of what I"ve been doing that's eliminated the joint pain. The results are pretty amazing in that I've "thrown away the splints I've been using for the last 15 years." I'm getting caught up from being out of town but I'll give a post this weekend. Brandy
I'll try to do a detail post this weekend of what I"ve been doing that's eliminated the joint pain. The results are pretty amazing in that I've "thrown away the splints I've been using for the last 15 years." I'm getting caught up from being out of town but I'll give a post this weekend. Brandy