The D/C cycle

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:22 pm

I know some of you have had issues with constipation, so I'll throw this out there: I seem to be in a cycle of being constipated (either not being able to go at all, or "little rocks"), for several days at a time, then I might see Norman if I've eaten something that doesn't wholly agree with me, like a salad or an extra half-cup of coffee or broccoli, but then I will have stomach pain after a normal BM for a few days. Throw in a day here and there of D because of some as-yet-unidentified culprit, and I don't know what to expect. I had been doing really well avoiding gluten, diary, soy and potatoes, but over the last few weeks I've had more "off" days than good ones. Question: is the C a symptom as well, and I'm just reacting daily but in different ways? I have been trying to increase my fluid intake, and I have cut out coffee the past few days, but I still seem to be on the same roller coaster.

Also, to Polly, Gloria, and others with our double DQ1's and multiple food intolerances: how long after you started GF did other things start popping up? I'm increasingly concerned that there are more foods I need to eliminate, but I have no idea what at this point. The fact that my symptoms are worse, not better, than two months ago seems to indicate that there's something new in the picture, no?

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:54 pm

Hi Cynthia,

Double DQ here with apparently endless sensitivities :(. Not only are the sensitivities endless, but they keep changing. I've come to believe that after a lifetime of gluten and dairy damage, it takes a very long time to heal; and while the healing process is going on, new sensitivities pop up until the immune system calms down enough to allow for a homeostatic internal environment.

During the one and a half years I have been healing, I have had some good periods BM wise (with almost perfect normans), but they never lasted more than 1-2 weeks, or perhaps 3 at the most. I'm struggling right now to get my BM's to firm up, but the good news is that I only go once or twice a day, and don't experience many of the other symptoms that come along.

I don't think I have ever had C in my life, so I cannot answer that question from personal experience, but I know that some here experience C rather than D as a symptom, and some vacillate between the two.

I know it's hard to be patient, but you have lots of PP company to follow along on your journey. Hope your road to recovery won't take as long as mine

.

Love,
Kari

Post by **tex** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm

Cynthia wrote:Question: is the C a symptom as well, and I'm just reacting daily but in different ways?

Probably. My cycle varied somewhat, but each complete cycle usually took somewhere between 10 and 20 days. Mine usually started with nausea, though. The nausea would be quickly followed by D, and as soon as the gas and bloating ended, the D would suddenly turn into C, which sometimes, (but not always would phase into Normans, before the cycle started over again.

The immune system often begins to recognize additional allergens somewhere between 1 and 3 months after the diet has begun to bring significant benefits, but that time frame is probably highly variable, depending on antibody levels when the diet is initiated, and specific diet details.

Cynthia wrote:The fact that my symptoms are worse, not better, than two months ago seems to indicate that there's something new in the picture, no?

IMO, yes - you're probably correct.

Tex

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:24 pm

Cynthia

I went 100% GF in Jan 2010, two weeks after starting it was great, then 4-6 weeks later symptoms ..
I then eliminated Yeast, two weeks after that it was great for a while and 6 – 7 weeks later symptoms…
I was already following a lactose free eating plan (had been for about 5 years) so I then eliminated all dairy, few weeks after that I was great and then about 8 weeks later symptoms returned.
That was when I eliminated soy, once soy was gone I didn’t have the rollercoaster ride of being good and then weeks later having heaps of issues
Any reactions after that were quite mild in comparison
Via the food diary and tracking reactions I then figured out that I couldn’t eat carrot and cauliflower in the same meal and various other idiosyncracies about my digestion.

I am one that has had C, and thought it was MC. The scope I had in August 2011 confirmed it was not MC related, my Large intestine is quite week and damaged from adhesions (I have had 3 lots of surgery for bowel contusions and it has been adhered to my left ovary since 1997) I also had haemorrhoids treated at the same time so I am being quite proactive about minimising the occurrence of C to avoid further haemorrhoids.
I have found that having about 6 – 8 well cooked peas in my vege and eggs breakfast is enough to avoid C without having D. (any more than 10 peas and there are issues)

As I am having calcium carbonate powder for the Gerd, this is quite constipating so I have the Calcium with apple puree. My eating plan has become a science/Ying Yang/ type set up, having small amount of one ingredient to counteract the actions of another and to avoid C and D

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:07 pm

Wow, Gabes! That IS very developed and scientific. That must take you hours to work out.

Cynthia, I am the C queen, I think. When I went GF, DF, SF, and, in response to the enterolab tests and my responses, chicken and poultry free.
Once the D stopped the C started. I have I have adhesions on my bowel since I was 19, so not all the C is symptomatic of MC.

I take HUGE amounts of "stuff" to get moving again. I take Miralax and stool softeners at night, and Swiss Kriss or senacort in the morning. I eat prunes (though I don't like to because they set off GERD), peas, the skins of potatoes (I check for greeness), and other fibrous foods.
My stomach gurgles at night, especially when I am lying on my back. I have belly pain, bloating and gas most of the time. Every few days I have one fairly firm BM, with pain afterwards, and sometimes I have several with urgency, mucous, and pain, though it's NOT watery D.

I don't think I have had a really good day. I get exhausted. I am always uncomfortable at the very least , and always either trying to get rid of the C or suffering through the results of the "stuff".

I cut foods out when it is clear that I am reacting, like turkey and duck. I inadvertently ate a small sliver of cheese. 1/2 an hour later I was on the potty with D.
Other than that I can't tell you whether the C is symptomatic of MC and the response to something I am eating (though I am sticking with the same things more or less) or my bowel adhesions and lack of motility.
I try every day to understand what my responses are, but I really have no idea.

I know from where you come!!

carolm · Post by **carolm** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:26 pm

Hi Cynthia, I so glad you posted this. I've also battled C and just when I thought that I had a working solution (one Phillips Milk of Magnesia tablet at bedtime) then it seems another sensitivity pops up and ruins all my work. I can look back now and I think some of my C was actually caused by the Entocort, and that I probably could have titrated down a little sooner. Some of it was if I had D and ended up taking Immodium, then C would be the result. Then I was back to figuring out how to get out of the C cycle without going to D. Truthfully I know now that eating chocolate would have given me the same results as the Milk of Mag tablet- not that I recommending that. I'm afraid I don't have any worthwhile advice. Keeping a log was about the most helpful thing-- at least I could see some predictability, even if I didn't always know what to do.

And Gabes...you are amazing. You have it down to a science and I am impressed. That is where I want to be. The cycle you describe about eliminating a food then doing ok for a couple of weeks, only to start having trouble again... that is where I am at now. I have not been at this long but I can see that pattern. I did have a persistent discomfort in my gut and decided to eliminate soy last week. It has made difference and I am more comfortable now. Thanks for sharing your journey. At least I know that setbacks are typical and to keep persisting.

Take care,
Carol

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:35 pm

Carol, when I took the entocort I couldn't go at all. Day after day. I felt like my abdomen was encased in set concrete. I stopped the entocort and now, with all the help I use, I manage to go every few days.

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:21 pm

This is why I love you guys! So I am not going crazy after all! I have always had D since going GF, SF, DF, no chicken, no corn and no casein I have become constipated! I know it has to do with something I am eating because I am nausea all the time. Then every once in awhile I get the D back! I guess it comes back just as a reminder of where I was! I know that if I eat a very large meal that I will be in the bathroom with my head in the toilet. So I have my meals now in stages. I really wish I had a crystal ball to see in it to find out what now is causing the nausea, oh and the gas and bloating I forgot about that! This is so much fun....it is never boring having MC! Everyday is a new adventure in the life of an MC'er!

I am so thankful that I am not going crazy!!! No one can understand unless they have been where you have been. My family as had enough of me being sick they don't understand what I put in my mouth does it! All I hear is "you cant eat that now, either". I don't even bother letting anyone know anymore when something is bothering it's to much work to keep explaining it. I have enough work trying to figure out what I can and can not eat.

carolm · Post by **carolm** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:28 pm

Hi Lesley and Robin,
Robin, I thoroughly appreciate what you are saying about how exhausting it is to try to explain this to everyone else-- at home and even at work. People notice that I am eating rice every day for lunch at work. They'd really be appalled to know that I ate ground beef and white rice this morning for breakfast too.

The other thing is that I was 15 pounds overweight when I became ill. (I was also lifting weights and running 5k races, so I was 10x more fit than I am now). People who don't know I've been sick will comment on my weight loss, a couple even showed up at my office to ask how I'm losing weight. I tell them the truth, but I'm kinda to the point I don't want to hear it anymore. I've dropped 24 pounds. I have lost a lot of muscle, my skin is super dry now... I think I look like someone who has been sick for months. GAH! It just adds to the frustration of dealing with all this.

It's so good we have this support group and each other.

Carol

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:53 pm

Oh, yes, THIS is why we have this forum!

I wasn't at a bad weight before, though maybe 5 pounds or so heavier than I wanted to be, but definitely within the "normal" range. I've lost 10 pounds since August. To people who don't deal with MC, it seems like a great thing to be able to lose weight without trying, but I weigh every morning to make sure I'm keeping my weight UP. My daughter, who is 5' 3" and 123 pounds, is worried about her weight because she weighs more than I do (never mind that she's also taller than I am, and a muscular competitive swimmer!). And I hate being that person at a dinner party who can't eat what everyone else does, so the hostess feels she needs to go to extra trouble for me--it's embarrassing.

I do think a lot about the multiple intolerance thing, especially since I got my genetic test back and realized i must have a bullseye painted on my colon! I'm glad to hear that other people have dealt with this "new intolerance of the month" thing successfully. The C is nothing new--if I think back to years ago, before MC, before Zoloft, before pregnancy, it was my "normal." I'm only just now realizing that it might have been food intolerance issues showing up, even then. And yes, i do have hemorrhoids, both internal and external (the one thing my GI correctly identified on my colonoscopy). I think there should be a rule: only one new intolerance at a time, wait your turn, yeast, this month it's corn's debut.

Sorry to rant! I do feel better today, though still a little gurgly--no pain, at least. I will soldier on tomorrow!

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:32 am

Rant away m'dear. C sucks as I have been telling you for a while. It's always been an issue with me, but now it's way worse because I am afraid to trigger D. But after a week of C I don't care any more, so I use a bomb. Not a gluten bomb. I am not that masochistic, but I have to find something that will get e going.

MC is hte never ending story!

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:02 am

I decided to try and find something else to eat for breakfast, since all the GF cereals and breads are unfriendly at the moment. Got some Udi's granola to try (with trepidation--this is the first time I've eaten oats since August). So far it seems to be well-tolerated, and it's helping with the C. The drawback is that it made me gassy, and that may translate to belly pain today, we'll see!

Question: do they actually test all these GF products on real people? Seems like a lot of people here can't eat the processed GF stuff. Or maybe they gear it all toward those with celiac and not people like us with other issues. I grew up in a Southern household where bread in some form was part of every meal, and it seems weird to me not to have a "starch" on the table, but more and more I'm just leaving it out, not just for myself, but for the rest of the family as well. Beyond the whole gluten issue, we probably eat too much in the way of simple carbs, and it's an easy way to cut back.

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:26 pm

Udi's granola is good, but if you can tolerate oats making your own is easy and WAY cheaper. You can make it very nutritious if you add seeds of various kinds, nuts you tolerate, and MAYBE raisins.
I just made a batch. It's delicious.

You might want to make a sweet bread. Dee has a number of recipes. Karina, the gluten free goddess (she's on FB) has wonderful recipes for carrot and for zucchini breads. I'm still struggling with her bread bread.