About Histamines And Food

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tex
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About Histamines And Food

Post by tex »

Hi All,

There seems to be a lot of interest in histamines in foods on the board, lately, (and for good reason, because I have a hunch that they affect virtually all of us to some extent, before we recover from severe MC flares). So I thought I would post my thoughts on the source of those histamines.

I could be wrong, but IMO, the primary source of histamines in food is mold, (for all I know, molds may be the sole source). Even though you usually can't see them, they're there, (especially on the foods that are highly susceptible to the growth of certain molds). Some molds grow rapidly, and others grow more slowly, but in many cases, they are not there on that food to begin with - their spores settle onto it, and then they develop and grow. That's why fresh foods are histamine-free, (or at least low-histamine), and aged, or dried foods, are usually loaded with histamines. On many dried fruits,for example, you can actually see the mold, but you don't have to be able to see if for it to be present at a very high level.

Sometimes nuts develop molds during the growing season, (especially in unusually wet conditions), and so some of the infected ones will be mixed in with the "clean" ones at harvest, and during processing. When eating nuts, most of us automatically throw out any that appear shriveled and diseased, so we can reduce the chances of ingesting histamines that way. That's probably why nut butters are more likely to be reactive, (in years when the nuts are infected before harvest), because infected nuts may be blended intro the mix.

Grains often develop molds in the fields, in seasons when the weather is unusually moist between the time when the grain matures, and the time at which it is dry enough to be harvested. Certain molds commonly infect such crops, including aspergillis species, and fusarium. Mold growth can also occur, or continue during storage, if moisture levels are too high, (above about 13% moisture). Here are some examples of the more common food molds, but there are others, of course.

Alternaria alternata is a common indoor mold, considered to be the main cause of allergy and asthma in young children.

Some species of Clarosporidium are often associated with the spoilage of refrigerated meats.

Aspergillus is the most common genus of molds on the planet, with over 160 different species, (16 of which are known to cause human disease). A couple of these species produce aflatoxin, for example.

Fusarium inffects most grains, and sometimes produces the toxin fumonisin, for example. At least one species can infect bananas, during the growing season. Believe it or not, there is a company that produces fusarium mold commercially, and sells it as a “meat alternative food” under the name of "Quorn". :shock:

Rhizopus fungi grow on mature fruits and vegetables, and they can be found in jellies, syrups, bread, peanuts, etc.

There are others, of course, that cause allergy problems, but aren't known to be major problems on food.

Anyway, I believe these molds are the source histamines in food, and I would assume that anyone who has mast cell issues related to MC, would also be likely to be susceptible to classic allergy symptoms in response to mold spores in the air. I know that pre-MC, molds never seemed to be a problem for me, (even though I was sensitive to ragweed and similar yellow pollens). Now, though, molds cause me to react with sneezing, watery eyes, runny nose, congestion, etc., if I breath the spores. :sigh:

Tex
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Post by desertrat »

Interesting, Tex. Would you then assume that evaporative cooling for a home would be a no-no? I live in Arizona and have evap and a/c for my home. I love my evap especially during the first months of summer when the dew point is low. You have to change the evap pads every now and then because they becoming "moldy" smelling. So, I guess what I want to say is, would breathing mold from the air be the same as ingesting it?

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Post by tex »

Mandy,

Interesting question. I lived with an evaporative cooler in my bedroom for many years, when I was younger. Since you've obviously changed out the excelsior that's used to disperse the water vapor in one of those coolers, you're well aware that the mold eventually decomposes the wood fiber until it becomes mostly granules and powder. :shock:

Probably the most common mold that thrives on wood is Stachybotrys, (the famous "black mold" is in this genus), but maybe the excelsior is treated to prevent that, because I don't recall ever seeing any black mold in such coolers. Alternaria alternata grows on wood, too, of course.

Apparently, bacteria are a bigger problem in evaporative coolers than molds, (maybe the environment in those coolers is too humid for some molds. :shrug: )

http://www.thinkzincanode.com/cooler_air_quality.html

No, as far as I'm aware, the term "ingesting" refers to passage into the digestive system, (not into the respiratory system). Obviously, though, certain inhaled particulates with systemic effects, may affect other body systems.

Tex
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Post by carolm »

Tex, I appreciate your sharing this. It gives me something else to consider as I think about adding foods. Staying with fresh fruit and peeling them first sounds like a good precaution. I had allergy testing years ago and was told to be aware of aged cheeses, ketchup, wine, and fungi/mushrooms, especially during allergy season. It seems to make sense. Molds are one of my worst environmental allergies. I probably need to take precautions when ingesting them as well.
Thanks for the insight,

Carol
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Post by Joefnh »

Interesting thread Tex, I have found that I do far better with fresh foods overall, especially with chicken and fish, I have to either cook them or freeze them the same day I buy them. Additionally in regards to mold that has always been one of my major environmental allergens and I am deathly allergic to any form of penicillin which is derived from mold.

As I shared in an earlier thread Gabes and I have been comparing notes about the effects of histamine on overall health, and I believe that Gabes has confirmed through some of her contacts some information about the effects of histamine on leaky gut.

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... highlight=

Certainly this issue does seem to be a key part to the health puzzle, thanks for bringing this up

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Post by MaggieRedwings »

Excellent thoughts Tex.

Strange question from me - can histamines possibly make one develop a rash - rash that is one spot only and does not spread and insteady of being itchy tends to burn and cause pain only? Just asking if you have any thoughts on this as right now my doctor is totally baffled at what a non-spreading area on my back is. They did cultures yesterday and will see tomorrow if and what they found.

Thanks and Love, Maggie
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Post by tex »

Hi Maggie,

Yes, histamines can definitely cause a rash. If it's just one spot, though, it could be a fungus. When I was younger, I used to get a red, inflamed spot that would sometimes itch like mad, and at other times it would burn. Sometimes two would show up, but never more than two - usually it was just one at a time. A fungicide salve always got rid of it, (after 2 or 3 weeks of treatment), but in a month or so it would be back, in a different location. After I adopted the diet, though, they stopped showing up, so in my case, they must have been connected with gluten. What you have is probably something else, though.

Love,
Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by MaggieRedwings »

Thanks Tex.

My first thought was fungus so am treating with Lotrimin and it is still confined to just the one spot. First time ever with something like this but since September vacation I have constantly been battling a bacterial eye infection - both eyes and it comes and goes - and no idea how it occured either. I really think my immune system is deteriorating but trying to keep a stiff upper chin. Will keep you posted on what she comes up with. Thought shingles but she said she did not feel so due to it not spreading at all.

Love and Thanks, Maggie
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Post by MaggieRedwings »

Well the verdict is in and it is shingles. Did not "present" in the normal linear form of shingles but that is what it is. The rash is on the mend well but the swelling in my upper trunk is out of hand and the pain is an 8 on a 1-10 scale. Never could imagine that something like this would be so painful. My doctor offered strong pain meds but I will deal with it without those - do not want D side effects. She said that the pain will hang on long after the rash is gone. Also told me my immune system is definitely degenerating. Getting a shingles shot on 4/4 and guess the price - over $300. Thankfully insurance will handle it.

Love, Maggie
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Post by tex »

:shock: It's always something, isn't it. :sigh:

IMO, we all have a weakened immune system - that's one of the reasons why we have MC, and that's why vitamin D supplementation is so important for us.

I hope the pain doesn't last as long as your doctor predicted.

Love,
Tex
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Post by Gloria »

Maggie,

I'm so sorry that you have shingles. I've heard nightmare stories about people with it. I got my shingles shot last fall and am glad I did. DH needs to wait until he's on Medicare because it's so expensive.

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Post by DebE13 »

Maggie- I hope you're feeling better soon. It's hard to deal with everything associated with MC then have other issues on top of it.

I frequently get a rash but it's always on my cheeks. It doens't itch but just feels hot and of course makes me look really attractive. :roll: It is sometimes caused when I start to get overheated. It feels like the heat gets trapped in my face and I can't cool off. I am also an expert mold detector- my lips and face start to tingle if I am exposed to it.

I am very interested in everything related to histamine issues because this is a new-found problem or at least I think I have these issues in addition to the CC. Not that I am excited about it at all but was relieved to find that Histame helped some. I'm wondering if I'll always have to use it because if I take it with every meal it will be quite expensive. It was such a good feeling to have it work. I have spent so much money taking supplements and it seems like everything under the sun in search for relief and answers.
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Post by Lesley »

I have had small patches of shingles on and off for years. I don't get big spreads of it, but the little patches can be very uncomfortable.
So I really sympathize with you Maggie! It's miserable.

I also have psoriasis on one elbow, which was clearing up, but with this flared has also flared.
I have spent so much money taking supplements and it seems like everything under the sun in search for relief and answers.
I can relate to that!
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Post by Gloria »

Quote:
I have spent so much money taking supplements and it seems like everything under the sun in search for relief and answers.

I can relate to that!
Me, too, Lesley and Deb!

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Post by starfire »

Maggie, I'm sorry to hear that it is so bad for you. A friend had them and she was really bad also. Yes, the shingles shot is very expensive. I didn't really want to get it but after my friend had such problems and with me taking care of Mom, I decided may I should take the risk (who knows what the side effects are from it). Anyway, I finally got it last year.

Take Care, Maggie.

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