All Blood Test Results (???)

[humbird753]

Hi -

I was gone for 6 days. My ND is 4-1/2 hours away from where I live and we have family in Northern Wisconsin so decided to take a week vacation along with it. I had an appointment with my ND to discuss things since we saw each other last and also 7 blood tests done (CBC, Sed Rate, AST (?), ALT (?), B12, CRP, and D levels). I just received an email advising results for all but the D level testing (I was told that had to be sent out and the results would take longer).

On CBC it shows MCH level at 31.5 (normal is 27 to 31 pg)
On CBC it shows BASOS% at 0.3 (normal is 1.0 to 2.5%)

Sed Rate is 42 (was 24 in September, 2011)

AST is 22 (normal range is 15 to 37 U/L)

ALT is 43 (normal is 30 to 65 U/L)

CRP is 3.2 (normal is 0.0 to 3.0 mg/L)

Vitamin B12 is 863 (normal is 293 to931 pg/ml)

I honestly do not know what any of this means.

I will not be able to have a conference with my ND until sometime next week.

Does anyone know anything about these types of testings/results? I know the Sed rate is high - definitely higher than it has ever been.

Any information will be appreciated. It's difficult emotionally to have tests done, get the results, and then not know what the results mean.

Thank you.

Paula

[tex]

Hi Paula,

With both your Sed rate and CRP slightly elevated, you definitely have some sort of inflammation going on. It could be due to your MC symptoms, or it could be due to seasonal allergies, or something else. Neither one is at an alarming level, though, just slightly elevated. If you're having MC symptoms, that could be the cause.

Basophils are similar to mast cells, (they also release histamines), so this would suggest that seasonal allergy symptoms may not be causing your increased Sed and CRP results, (but that isn't chiseled in stone - it also depends on your eosinophil levels, and other lymphocyte levels). Your basophil percentage is nothing to worry about, though, because as your ND will probably tell you, the various lymphocyte percentages often change on a daily basis. One or more of mine are almost always higher or lower than normal, and they tend to vary from test to test, so I don't pay much attention to them. I might if they got waaaaaaaay out of line.

AST and ALT are liver enzymes, so your results show that you don't appear to have any liver issues. Your B-12 is fine.

An elevated MCH result can indicate a B-12 and/or folate deficiency. Since your B-12 level is plenty high, you may not be getting enough folic acid in your diet. That can easily happen on the GF diet, because wheat flour is fortified with folic acid, so when we cut out gluten, we eliminate many of the sources of folic acid. Your MCH is certainly not high enough to get excited about, but you can probably lower that number by adding a folic acid supplement. You probably wouldn't need much.

All in all, nothing appears to be out of range enough to be concerned about. Arthritis symptoms can cause an increase in Sed rate, also. Did they happen to check your RF, (rheumatoid factor)?

Tex

[humbird753]

Tex, thank you very much for your comments. I was hoping to hear from you. I remember reading on this forum a comment that "it appears most with MC are intelligent." I'll be the first to say that I am not. I am just hoping I will be able to learn enough to put this into remission and not cause any other health issues along the way.

You asked if they checked my RF. No they didn't, but I do not have any arthritis symptoms which may be why it wasn't recommended.

A couple of years ago when my mother passed away, I took up bowling (which I hadn't done since I was in my mid 20's). I enjoyed it a lot. I have always enjoyed any kind of physical sport. Anyway, I enjoyed it so much, I ended up bowling a minimum of 2 evenings per week with my husband and another friend of ours. I then decided I would be even better if I got my own personally fitted ball. When buying one I asked what would a normal weight be for a woman and was told 12 to 14 lbs. I was used to house balls that were 10 lbs., so I decided to try the 12 lb ball. From that day on I lost my enjoyment for bowling because it was causing pain. So, I decided I needed a lighter and then purchased a fitted ball that was 10 lbs. Unfortunately that didn't help. I woke up the morning after a usual 6-game bowling evening and although I had never been to a chiropractor I decided that was what I needed to do. X-rays showed a severely pinched sciatic nerve. The pain continued 24/7 for 6 weeks, with treatments and ice packs. It wasn't until after this experience that I found out that chiropractors do not recommend any type of drugs (not even for pain). It was about 4 months before I was able to be more physically active again (although no bowling).

I know that there was extreme inflamation when my back was at its worst, but I can't help but believe there is still inflamation because I continue to have problems with it. When I had my first Sed rate test done last September, I told my ND about the pinched sciatic nerve and the continued pain I have (unless I get enough stretching and movement). She responded as though this would not contribute to an elevated Sed rate.

This sounds like the GI specialist saying our diet has nothing to do with MC.

Can my back issues be contributing to my increased Sed rate?


Paula

[tex]

Paula,

I think you're wrong -- as far as I can tell, we don't have any members who aren't intelligent.

Can my back issues be contributing to my increased Sed rate?

Well, it depends on what's causing the back pain. If the pain is due to a pinched nerve, that shouldn't cause much of an increase in either Sed rate or CRP. If the back pain is due to a bone infection, though, (known as osteomyelitis), then it would likely cause significant increases in both Sed rate and CRP. Or, if the pain were due to arthritis, that would cause the rates to go up.

Tex

[humbird753]

Thank you again, Tex, for all your input.


Paula

[humbird753]

Well, I got my results for the D level this morning. It is 38. I have read already from another post that it is okay. I have been taking 6,000 twice a day for several months, but will take an additional dose every day to hopefully increase the level.

I would assume that is the only thing I can do to hopefully make a difference in the D level.

Paula

[humbird753]

I want to start by saying I was wrong and wasn't thinking clearly when I said I was taking 6,000 twice a day. I am only taking 5,000 per day.

I had my phone conference with my ND. She is concerned about my elevated Sed rate of 42, and CRP which is 3.2 (says she wants to see it lower than 1), and also she considers my D level of 38.2 too low. Although summer is coming she is recommending I do not decrease the D3 but continue taking the 5,000 per day. She said she is suspecting there may be something else going on other than the MC. I'm not sure if I agree with her.

She wants me to take a supplement for inflamation called Inflavonoid (3 pills in the morning and 3 pills in the evening) for 3 months and then do another check for Sed rate and CRP. She also said she would like to know what my cholestrol level is, so I'll be having that checked sometime this month.

Without having an overall knowledge of most of this, it concerns me when either a PCP, GI, or a ND says things like "I suspect more is going on" and has nothing else to add to that. It only makes me wonder

I believe it can be as simple as the fact that I am still having D more often than I should and when things calm down more (begin to heal), those test results will improve.

I just wanted to share what my ND said about the results of my tests.

Paula

[tex]

Paula,

FWIW, I agree with you. Doctors always expect patients with MC to respond to treatment and recover quickly. In the real world, we know from experience that there are no quick and easy recoveries. Almost everyone here who is in remission took longer than a year to completely recover, and many of us needed much more time than that. It took me a year and a half to stop the D from constantly returning, and it took another year and a half of healing before I could start reintroducing some foods back into my diet. If I hadn't cut my diet down to only a few simple foods, and stuck with it, I might still be trying to find a solution. It's never easy, and since we're all different, much of it is unpredictable.

I have no idea whether or not Inflavonoid would provide any benefits. The manufacturer promotes it mostly as a pain reliever, rather than as an inflammation treatment.

http://www.metagenics.com/products/a-z- ... nflavonoid

Tex

[desertrat]

Paula, like you my CRP is up, but much higher than yours at 7.9. I freaked out a little, because it has steadily been going up, even though my MC reactions are almost nil.

My PA suggest gum/dental problems and now that I think about it, my gums are sore and slightly bleeding, and my lower jaw hurts right at my two back molars. So, do you have any teeth issues? Might be worth it to check it out.

Also, my PA recommended for inflammation to take Krill pills and a supplement called Astaxanthin, which is supposed to be amazing at taking inflammation levels down. Oh, and to up the Vitamin C and increase Vitamin E. Google, Astaxanthin. You will be surprised to see what it can do. I know I was.

Blessings

Mandy

[humbird753]

Tex, thank you for your quick search on Inflavonoid. I read what it said, and it only tells me it is a minor pain relief as well. It says nothing about reducing inflamation. What is my ND thinking???

Mandy, I found Astaxanthin very interesting. Sounds like it has a lot of benefits to it. Do you take this? And if you do, are you finding improvements?

Paula

[desertrat]

Paula,
No I haven't started taking it yet, since my PA just recommended it two days ago. I am going to buy it today. So far, my PA has been 99% accurate on what to do, so I trust her with this info.
Mandy

[humbird753]

RE: Inflavonoid for Pain

FWIW I emailed my ND and asked why she would recommend Inflavonoid for inflamation when it clearly states it is for pain relief. This is the response she emailed back to me:

"Where ever there's pain there's inflammation - so the product decreases pain by reducing inflammation - just like NSAIDs, ibuprofen, aspirin etc. do. That's the entire mechanism of action of this product - to bring down inflammation. If you had pain sensory nerve endings in your colon - you would be in pain, but you don't which is why although there is inflammation, you don't feel pain. Let me know if you have any other questions."


Paula

[Zizzle]

Thank goodness we don't have nerve endings in our colon! We'd all be extremely miserable!! I imagine the cramps, etc that some people feel are from digestive processes higher up, or the pressure from our inflammed colons on our other organs. I'm lucky to have the classic "painless" watery D.

[tex]

Paula,

Yes, inflammation and pain are typically associated with chronic issues. And yes, there are almost no nerve endings in the epithelia of the intestines. There are however, nerves in the serosa (the outer layer of the intestines, which is supported by, and interfaces with, the mesentery).

As you know, I hate to disagree with a doctor ( ), but while that statement is generally true in chronic issues, I can easily prove it to be incorrect in general. For example.

What happens when you burn your skin? It instantly hurts like hell, even though it takes a few more minutes for the inflammation to develop.

What happens when you cut your finger? Same thing -- the pain is instant, even though absolutely no inflammation has had any time to develop (that comes a few minutes later).

What happens if we slam our finger in a door? Same thing -- the pain is instantaneous, even though it takes several minutes for the inflammatory process to progress to the swelling stage.

So what does this tell us? Pain is a result of sensory perception by nerves (as your doctor correctly pointed out), but no inflammation is necessary for the initiation of pain. The pain comes first, and the inflammation follows. (And yes, the inflammation and it's symptoms causes additional pain to develop, but this is secondary pain, not primary pain. Primary pain comes in response to instantaneous nerve stimulation, and it it occurs, well, instantaneously. If we had to rely on inflammation to generate enough pain to prompt us to pull our finger out of a candle flame, for example, our finger would be severely damaged before our brain ever realized that we need to move our finger away from that flame. Fortunately, we respond almost instantly, because pain is primarily a sensory nerve response (rather than a response to inflammation).

So will Inflavonoid help to suppress pain? I certainly won't say that it can't do so, because anything is possible, and the placebo effect is very powerful. However, if it were a potent pain-reliever, I have a hunch that we would all be using it, already -- we wouldn't be just now finding out about it.

Incidentally, there's a gap in your doctor's knowledge about the issue of intestinal pain. Theoretically, if there are no nerve endings in the mucosa of the intestines (as your doctor correctly pointed out), there could be no pain perception, regardless of whether or not any inflammation existed. Therefore, using that line of logic, treating the inflammation would have no affect on the perception of pain.

We know that's not true, however, because we know that pain does exist with this disease, and we know that controlling the inflammation does reduce any pain that might be associated with it.

Inflammation is also associated with (and essential to) healing. Have you tried L-glutamine? It's known to promote intestinal healing. As the damage heals, the inflammation will fade away. Trying to suppress inflammation without promoting healing is an exercise in futility, because tissue damage cannot heal without inflammation. Therefore, the key to treating an IBD is to promote healing, rather than to just suppress inflammation. That's why we promote the diet over drugs -- because the diet interrupts the inflammatory process by removing the source of the inflammation, and it allows the intestines to heal naturally, by letting the inflammation run it's course during the healing process. That's also why corticosteroids actually retard healing -- because they suppress inflammation, without promoting healing.

Tex