Reaction to Kombucha - yeast or histamine intolerance?

[Zizzle]

So I know I probably have some sort of mast cell issues with my skin and GI tract, but I tend to tolerate many high-histamine foods pretty well, which is confusing.

However, over the weekend, I drank a half cup of Kumbucha for the first time (on tap --active, fresh stuff), and within 15 minutes I was woozy, feeling drunk, and racing to the bathroom with D. The reaction only lasted about 20 minutes.

So I looked up Kombucha's properties and intolerance issues, and I realized it has a lot of yeast, similar to champagne, cider and wine, which I no longer tolerate. They make me feel the same -- lightheaded, woozy, flushed, etc. Kombucha is also a high-histamine food due to the fermentation process.

So the question is, was this a reaction to histamines in the product, or was it an allergic/mast-cell mediated reaction to the yeast alone?

I tested sensitive for Saccharomyces Cerevisiae yeast on Enterolab (low teens), then to Candida Abl. on MRT. I understand bakers and brewers yeast are similar (interestingly, I don't react to GF breads with yeast), and they are both totally separate from Candida problems (eating yeast does not create more Candida, although the starches and sugars feed existing Candida).

Any guesses? Was I just responding to a huge dose of yeast? Or a huge dose of histamine?
If it's about the dose and my personal threshold, why do I get symptoms after only 2 sips of wine or champagne?

And a related dilemma...I recently bought a Jarrow brand Saccharomyces Boulardi proibiotic with MOS supplement, after hearing discussions here and reading it was good for treating various causes of D. I thought it was a bacteria, but it's a yeast! A subspescies of Saccharomyces Cerevisiae!! I took it for about 5 days with no trouble, but should I stop? If I am intolerant of S.Cerevisiae, shouldn't I be cross-reacting to S. Boulardi too? Or could the beneficial one help with my problems with the other one?

I'm so confused!

[Deb]

Zizzle, the first time I had kombucha tea I was running to the bathroom with D within minutes. I didn't get woozy or anything.That was my only reaction. Now the tea just feels good in my belly. I had no reaction the next time and continue to drink it nearly daily...sometimes as much as 16-24 oz. I just ordered some kefir water grains. I've made it with dairy before but thought I'd give this a try....the more bacteria I can tolerate the better, I think.
Sorry, I don't know the answer to your histamine/mast cell question. Deb

[gluten]

Hi, I take Pimal Defense Ultra by Garden of Life and it has saccharomyces boulardii as the first item and have no symptoms from it. A site about the other saccharomyces is http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1808965/ Jon

[WhirledPeas]

Hi Zizzle and Deb!

I just did a search on this board for Kombucha threads and found this one. A friend of mine is looking for 10 friends to get a weekly quart of it from him. I've heard about it before, but have been leery of drinking it without finding out more about it. Besides LC, I have gastritis and GERD. I don't know how it would be for those two conditions. If it has a vinegary taste I'm not so keen on it. It's always so hard trying new things for fear it will make my symptoms worse and I have symptoms often enough from gastritis and reflux without adding to it. I'm 50/50 now based on reading the threads on here.

I miss yogurt. I stopped eating it a few years ago because I'd get this awful sour taste in my mouth after eating it. Almost like curdling, but not. Same thing with milk. Cheese doesn't do that to me. I miss cheese too. I cut it out when gastritis starting hitting me more often. Not because I'd have a reaction to it, but I read you should avoid dairy to heal from gastritis. Too many GI issues! I wish it were only a matter of going GF! Relatively speaking that would be easy without avoiding things for reflux and gastritis. Thanks for "listening" to my vent! :)

[Deb]

Whirled Peas, sorry you're still having issues. I make my kombucha tea regularly and it is very easy. You can make it as sweet or sour as you like but I prefer it on the sour side as most of the sugar is used up. I recently accidentally "killed" off my scoby. I easily started a new batch with a bottle I bought at my health food store (it's refrigerated). Deb

[Zizzle]

I don't tolerate Kombucha. I have the same reaction as drinking champagne. I just read an article last night pointing to one danger of kombucha -- very high levels of fluoride!

http://www.orawellness.com/blog/why-we- ... /#more-324

[tex]

Zizzle,

IMO, it's impossible to separate yeast from histamines. Yeast, molds, fungus, etc., are all integrally connected with the production of histamines (again, IMO — pages 172–173 in the book, for details).

Tex

[WhirledPeas]

I don't tolerate Kombucha. I have the same reaction as drinking champagne. I just read an article last night pointing to one danger of kombucha -- very high levels of fluoride!

http://www.orawellness.com/blog/why-we- ... /#more-324

Thanks for the link! I take these blogs with a grain of salt though. I'm not ready to become a weekly kombucha drinker due to the possible acidity (I have GERD/gastritis), but the idea that you should avoid green or black tea based on flouride content sounds a little farfetched. Here's a link about that from Dr. Weil who is a respected, holistic MD. (I'm a decaf green and black tea drinker. One of my few pleasures, so that got my attention!) :-)

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA22857

[Deb]

I make my kombucha with half green tea and half hibiscus tea (which is supposed to help blood pressure). It's a nice rosy color and feels good to me. Deb

[WhirledPeas]

Deb,
Do you have any other GI diagnoses beyond MC? Curious since I have some other issues which prevents me from eating some of the things some MC'ers on here eat (I looked at the menu section from a few years ago). I am curious about kombucha and would like to hear from someone that has had issues with acid reflux and or gastritis. So few on here that drink kombucha, but maybe down the line someone will post here with their experiences.

One of my favorite teas is green tea with jasmine, but I don't drink it very often since it's hard to find it in decaf form. Matter of a fact, I've never seen it in decaf. So good... :-)

[Sheila]

Zizzle, tea is red for me according to my MRT test and I really miss it. Kombucha is unthinkable.

My GI doc started me on S. boulardii when I first got sick and I've been taking it since then. This past year I've been buying it from Jarrow without any problems.

Sheila W

[MBombardier]

Deb, let me know how your water kefir turns out. I have some grains in the fridge--if I didn't kill them because I've been too busy to take care of them, I'm going to start my first batch today.

[Deb]

WhirledPeas, I don't have any other GI issues now but I previously had a lot of acid reflux.Even water seemed to bother me at one point.
Marliss, I made the water kefir a few times but didn't love it so I quit making it. I've recently been making tepache (which I think you can find here with a search). Basically it's pineapple rinds, core and flesh, sugar and water (with a bit of Mexican cinnamon and cloves). It takes about 4 days and DH and I both really like it. It also feels good in my belly. Deb

[Zizzle]

Hey gang,

I just ordered a batch of water kefir grains from Keysands. I'm so excited!! I'm a little nervous given my past reaction to Kombucha, but we'll see if this combo of probiotics agrees with me more.

http://www.keysands.com/about-our-cultures/

Here's a detailed list of the bacteria and yeasts found in kefir grains:

http://www.keysands.com/water-kefir-strains/

My only fear is S. cerevisiae, which may be a target of our immune system in IBDs. I'll know soon enough!

[JLH]

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Tepache

GF beer, of course, if you make it.