SAMe effective as an anti-histamine?

[ozgal]

Hi all

Well I've been on 6mg of budesonide for 5 weeks now. I'll be visiting my GI early next and will most likely be advised to drop down to 3mg.

For the most part, my BMs are once every 2 days, sometimes norman but most often oatmeal in consistency and a light brown-orangey colour. I am still experiencing daily foot/leg cramps (mostly in the morning), frequent long urination streams (2-3 times a night and every 2-3 hours during the day) and stomach gurgling every 2 days or so.

I've just had a blood test to check my electrolyte levels and will get the results from my GI soon. Maybe I'm lacking potassium? I've noticed I've gotten worse since cutting bananas out of my diet.

I've been doing a lot of reading on mast cell and low histamine diets since my last post and believe I'm a likely candidate with my background of hayfever, allergy to beestings, asthma, hives, poor circulation etc.

Frequent urination has been mentioned as one possible symptom of mast cell/histamine intolerance. I'm worried that if I don't address this issue before I wean myself off of budesonide, I'm likely to relapse despite the strict and low histamine diet I'm currently following.

I've tried a H1 blocker with no effect.

I've tried a H2 blocker which gave me a bad migraine and nausea. No positive effects felt so I stopped after 1 day.

The following link mentions that a supplement called SAMe (S-Adenosylmethionine Disulfate Tosylate) acts as the universal methyl donor in the body. http://peelingbacktheonionlayers.com/co ... ve-health/

I'm considering trying SAMe however wanted to check with you all to see if:

a) Has anyone tried this and gotten good results?
b) Is it safe to take this while on budesonide? SAMe is a natural supplement used to treat depression/anxiety. The pamphlet I received with budesonide advised to avoid anti-depressants but does that mean the pharmaceutical varieties only such as prozac and zoloft?

Here's the supplement available to me here in Australia http://www.carusosnaturalhealth.com.au/ ... feeze-plus

I've also read that Vitamin C can act as an anti-histamine. How can I ensure I supplement my Vitamin C levels without taking oranges/lemons (a restricted food on the low histamine diet list)? Is there a sublingual liquid form of Vitamin C on the market? I'm thinking generic supplements in pill/tablet form probably won't even be absorbed...

Any thoughts/advice welcome!

thanks

Helen

[tex]

Hi Helen,

We have found that foot and leg cramps are typically caused by a magnesium deficiency, but a potassium deficiency (or a deficiency of any other electrolyte, such as calcium or sodium) can also cause them, in some cases. Many of us here take a magnesium supplement in order to prevent such cramps and/or restless leg syndrome.

I'm not familiar with using SAMe, and I'm not sure why it would help someone who has MC, but vitamins B-12, B-9 (folic acid), and B-6 are often beneficial for many of us, especially if we have had extended periods with D that put us at risk of malabsorption issues.

I'm not aware of any known drug interactions between budesonide and SAMe, so they should be safe to take together.

I'm not familiar with using vitamin C as an antihistamine, but considering your symptoms (bad migraine and nausea) from using an H2 blocker, it's possible that your stomach may not produce enough gastric acid. IOW, suppressing stomach acid slightly shouldn't produce such dramatic symptoms. That suggests that your existing gastric acid production level might be marginal or inadequate (because the H1 blocker obviously compromised your digestion). Have you ever tried Betaine HCL? Betaine will stimulate the parietal cells in your stomach to produce more gastric acid. And in the process, Betaine also acts as an antihistamine.

Tex

[barbiem]

would your PH be acidic if producing too much gastric acid or is it the opposite Tex?

Also I didn't know you are not supposed to take anti depressants while on entocort? why is that?

[tex]

The pH is extremely acidic in our stomach whenever it contains food, because that's essential in order to properly initiate the digestion of our food (and to kill pathogenic bacteria that might be in the food). After the chyme (partially digested food) leaves the stomach, the pancreas adds enough bicarbonate to it to adjust the pH to near neutral, where the pH pretty much remains for the rest of it's journey through the GI tract.

We don't have to worry about pH, because despite all the fiction written about it to the contrary, the body automatically adjusts the pH to wherever it needs to be in various parts of the GI tract, and there is not much that we can do to change that significantly, without risking causing serious digestive problems. For millions of years, our ancient ancestors didn't worry about pH, and we shouldn't have to worry about it, either.

While some antidepressants may have minor interactions with budesonide (to make either the antidepressant or the budesonide either more or less effective), none of them appear to have any major effect. Consequently, most doctors seem to totally ignore that possible issue.

The biggest interaction risk with virtually any medication is grapefruit juice. Grapefruit juice can make budesonide and most other medications much more potent (enough to make some of them dangerous). By contrast, most antidepressants have only a very minor affect, if they have any interaction at all.

Tex

[barbiem]

so I if my ph in my saliva is always at 5.0 and stays there all day unless I eat then for about 5 mins it rises to 7.0 that is still okay? Also I did the test where you drink b.soda and water and should burp after 10 to 15 mins but I never burped at all. Doesn't this mean I do have issues? Also if I have pancreatic insufficiency whereby it isn't doing it's job, does that not mean my ph is out of whack hence the reason I don't digest food properly?

[tex]

Hi Barb,

This is just my opinion, and remember that I'm not a medical professional, but here are my thoughts on your questions:

According to the International Journal of Drug Testing, the pH level in the mouth is normally between 5.6 and 7.9. The higher readings are usually found in kids. For adults, the pH of saliva is usually below 6.5. At 5.0, yours is slightly below the normal range, but IMO that may not be such a bad thing, because even though an acidic environment in the mouth can lead to a higher risk of damage to tooth enamel, it also has the advantage of destroying bacteria that can cause tooth decay, and possibly other GI tract infections. And acidic saliva helps to initiate the digestive process by getting it off to a good start.

The pH of saliva will naturally change temporarily when we place foods with higher or lower pH levels in our mouth, but that is a transient effect that has little long-term effect.

Also I did the test where you drink b.soda and water and should burp after 10 to 15 mins but I never burped at all. Doesn't this mean I do have issues?

That result suggests that the pH of your stomach may be too high (not acidic enough), since the pH of baking soda in water is around 8.3. IOW, the baking soda is showing no reaction with acid, indicating that the contents of your stomach are not acid.

IMO, this is almost surely why you have pancreatic insufficiency, because if the pH of the stomach is too high, then the pancreas will see no need to supply bicarbonate in order to buffer the acid (since there is little or no acid available), and if it doesn't supply bicarbonate, then it probably won't supply a normal amount of lipase (needed to digest fats), either. IOW, IMO your pancreas isn't the problem. The problem is insufficient gastric acid. If the stomach is not functioning properly, then the pancreas cannot function normally, either.

It appears that you need more stomach acid. That may be the main reason why you are having digestive problems, and it may be the reason why you are unable to achieve remission.

Remember, this is just my unprofessional opinion, but if I were in your situation, I would either ask my doctor to test my stomach acid, or I would experiment with taking Betaine HCL, in order to get my stomach to start working better. Without adequate stomach acid, there is no way that your digestive system can digest food properly.

It seems that allopathic doctors rarely check stomach acid. They would rather write out a prescription for a PPI, which will suppress stomach acid production even more, thereby making the situation even worse. Naturopathic doctors are much more likely to check stomach acid, to see what is really causing digestive problems.

Tex

[barbiem]

thanks sooo much Tex!! Once again you blow my mind and are the only person to have anything make sense of my symptoms!! - I am going to try a betaine hcl - is there one you recommend??

babs

[barbiem]

I was just looking for some Betaine HCL and was wondering if it is okay to take with my prescription pancreatic enzymes?? Also I am sensitive to gelatin and wondering if you know of any brands without that in it

thxs

[tex]

Barb,

The ones I have do not contain any gelatin. I picked them up in a health food store. They are Nature's Plus brand, 600 mg, which I believe is a practical dosage size. I notice that they also contain pancreatin. Pancreatin is a mixture of several digestive enzymes produced by the pancreas, including amylase, lipase and protease, and it's often used to treat conditions where pancreatic secretions are deficient. It doesn't say how much is in there, though, so I'm not sure if it will replace the enzymes that you are already taking, but it might. It may be safest to skip taking the pancreatic enzymes when you try the Betaine Hydrochloride, if the brand you buy also contains pancreatin.

The proper way to determine the correct dosage is explained in the 7th and 8th posts in the thread at this link:

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16957

Tex

[ozgal]

Thanks Tex.

Like Barb, I'm suspecting I have low stomach acid which is preventing my progress towards remission. I'll give the baking soda test a try.

I took Braggs raw apple cider vinegar out of my diet as I thought it was a high histamine food but I haven't noticed any significant improvement since going low histamine so I re-introduced it yesterday. I'm taking 1 tsp in a glass of warm water before every meal to help with low stomach acid. Will see if that helps.

Anyone hear about or try drinking cabbage juice? It is said to calm inflammation in the stomach lining. There's also a product I'm considering called Gastrazyme (cabbage extract). Anyone try this?

thanks
Helen

[barbiem]

question: inflammation of the mucosa means we are lacking mucos right? if we add betaine HCL to our stomach won't that make it worse because the muscosa is not healed etc.?

babs

[ozgal]

Here's the link to Gastrazyme btw http://www.amazon.com/Biotics-Research- ... B000UQTEHY

[barbiem]

does this work?? can I take it with my already pancreatic enzymes? wow just found the website Canada one - lots of good products to due with intestinal permeability etc. - how does one know we don't have a leaky gut too?? I know I don't have bacterial overgrowth as my test results after drinking the glucose was negative

[tex]

question: inflammation of the mucosa means we are lacking mucos right? if we add betaine HCL to our stomach won't that make it worse because the muscosa is not healed etc.?

No, inflammation of the mucosa means that the cells at the surface of the muosa (enterocytes) are infiltrated with lymphocytes, and these are the source of the inflammation. Most people who have MC produce copious amounts of mucus when they are reacting, because the mucosa dumps extra mucus on the surface in an effort to try to protect the surface of the mucosa from the inflammation.

The colon is a long way from the stomach, and any acid produced in the stomach is neutralized by the pancreas as it enters the small intestine. Therefore, no stomach acid is present in the small intestine or the colon.

Tex

[barbiem]

so very interesting!!! I think I get it now!! So when I first started getting sick I would have immediate diarrhea after eating any food except rice and rice cakes and peanut butter LOL. So is that because the inflammation started? or because of mast cell issues? and as time went by I became more sensitive and more sensitive. why is that?? Is it because of more lymphocytes being produced? or because of a leaky gut? or because of pancreatic insufficiency? or because of lack of stomach acid? ( At the beginning of all this they thought I had an ulcer because the pain after eating under my right ribcage was horrible) then they thought gallbladder because of the area but ultrasound showed up nothing.