joint aches

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:21 am

HI,

I was wondering about natural ways to reduce joint aches. I have the pain in my thumb joints and in my right arm. If I lay on my right side at night, I wake up sore. The ache in my right thumb has been there for a few years, and is more severe. I fell on my right side at the same time I was diagnosed with MC (received a concussion, too), and that's when the shoulder & down to my elbow pain began. I never knew if the soreness was from the fall or the MC or both.

I had told my doctor about the arm pain, but he said my range of motion was alright. I've had it now for 1 1/2 years.

I read so much about getting the gut healed, but I can't do any of it! Fermented foods, probiotcs, glutamine, supplements like slippery elm & marshmallow root, veggies.....but I react to all of them, and can only eat my simple bland diet. I keep wondering if I should try something, or just keep with what I'm doing and eventually try to reintroduce veggies first. Are we (MCers) so unique that it has to be all about diet first, and things will heal? I read articles daily about how to heal leaky gut, and the digestive tract, and it seems the only thing I'm doing is the protein by eating meats, and there is so much other advise out there....it's hard to filter it all!

Polly · Post by **Polly** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:15 am

Hi Linda!

Oh my, you seem to have almost as many food sensitivities as I do! Lucky us.....NOT! LOL.

Usually, if the pain is due to MC, it should be equally on both sides. I suspect your right arm pain is likely due to that old trauma. If you had a concussion, the force of the fall must have been considerable. As for the thumbs, I do know that gluten sensitivity can present as sore thumbs. (I learned that from a very early website on MC about 14 years ago). However, I assume that you no longer eat gluten. Could the thumb pain be due to some repetitive activity you are doing? Re something natural......have you ever tried raisins soaked in gin? Some swear that they help arthritis pain. I don't see grapes on your list of intolerances, but I guess gin is made from a grain, so maybe that would be a problem.

Re the diet.....rest assured that your simple, bland diet is absolutely the way to go! Really - forget about fermented foods, probiotics, glutamine, and herbs/supplements. I know that some people have found these to be helpful, but NONE of them made a bit of difference for me. And some (like probiotics) made me feel worse. I have a huge number of sensitivities like you, so we may have similar genetic makeups. I wasn't even able to tolerate Pepto Bismol - (I think the dye/flavorings were a problem for me). My general advice to anyone (and especially those with multiple sensitivities like us) is to take nothing other than what you need to stay alive. Tee Hee. And truly, when it comes to herbs and similar supplements, you really have no idea what you are ingesting. They are not regulated/monitored. I have seen studies that show that sometimes the bottle does not contain ANY of the listed ingredient or perhaps 10 times the concentration indicated. Also, a significant number of those studied contained extra ingredients (some quite harmful) not listed on the bottle.

Are you eating pale? Where in PA are you? I am just under the Mason-Dixon line in MD.

Love,

Polly

Post by **tex** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:16 am

Hi Linda,

According to Hippocrates, “All disease begins in the gut.” And that pretty well defines my position on the issue. Most of us have found that when our MC is finally resolved, just about all the other satellite issues fade away also.

I'm sure that Polly is right on target about your arm, namely that the symptoms associated with your arm are probably due mostly to the fall. It may eventually get better on it's own, though. About 25–30 years ago I had a limb break out from under me while I was climbing down out of a tree. After that, I couldn't lift my left arm enough to get my hand more than a few inches above my head. After about 20 years passed, I finally assumed that it might turn out to be a permanent disability.

But guess what . . . now that I no longer work as hard (I used to spend a lot of time stacking bags of corn on pallets, and then re-stacking them when I delivered them to feed stores), I notice that my left arm has the same range of motion as the other one.

Apparently, I never allowed it to heal properly, because I was always using it for hard work.

I'll give you another example: About 10 or 12 years ago I slipped on a puddle of water while pulling a ton of corn on a pallet jack into a store, and I fell on my tailbone. It refused to heal, and it bothered the heck out of me for years. Then one weekend I had to have emergency abdominal surgery (due to a blockage caused by a stenosis in my sigmoid colon). Fortunately I survived, and after taking it easy for about 6 weeks while I was recovering, I discovered that my tailbone issue had mysteriously disappeared.

I think the moral of the story is that it takes more than time to heal any injury. IMO, the key to healing is to absolutely avoid continually insulting an injury, if we expect it to heal. The same applies to MC, of course. If we continue to insult our gut with foods that we know it can't handle, and all sorts of other crap to boot, we shouldn't be surprised when it doesn't heal.

Obviously that last remark is not directed at you, because I'm well aware that you're doing everything humanly possible to allow your gut to heal

And I totally agree with Polly about supplements in connection with healing MC. My take on trying to force healing through the use of supplements is that they simply don't work very well for most of us. IMO, more is less, and vice versa.

Incidentally, you should never sleep on your right side, not just because of your arm, but because that positions part of your stomach higher than your lower esophageal sphincter, thus establishing the potential for acid reflux. Never lying on one's right side is the first rule for resolving a GERD problem.

I see that your 1-year anniversary is coming up. You are almost 1 year closer to remission, and it should happen sometime soon, with any luck at all. In China, this is the year of the horse, but in Pennsylvania, surely it will be the year of remission.

Tex

JenniferS · Post by **JenniferS** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:29 am

I used to get insane joint pain--the kind that would hit me when I was in bed, like a sharp, stabbing pain or sometimes throbbing. Although I still get joint pain, it's nowhere near what it used to be, and I attribute mine most likely to gluten. I still get flu-like body aches, and I'm not sure if that's hormonal (been having my cycle about every two weeks lately. Ugh!), or longterm steroid use (going on two years) or lifestyle (I'm a writer that, due to hemmorhoids that refuse to heal, spends a chunk of the day on the computer in a reclyner rather than sitting appropriately at a desk). I also get insane (yes, that's my favorite word. It dates me, I know), hand and feet pain, which I attribute to raynaud's.

But, what I've been doing to help with pain:

I eat--yes, and insane--amount of candied ginger. This has helped with numerous areas as it's anti-inflammatory
I move and stretch periodically. This gets blood flow going which helps me
I watch out for (or rather, avoid like the plague) cold, not easy living in the snow-dumped midwest.
My hubby gives me frequent, full body massages. (Yes, he is amazing. Adore that man!)
I do yoga and have begun to do pilates.

The yoga has been amazing. Sunday, I was in--yes, and insane--amount of pain, really didn't want to do ANYthing, but hubby dragged me to the gym. Afterwards, my pain was reduced by 80%, and that reduction lasted for maybe 4 hours. So I've been doing "yoga" type moves throughout the day, and it does help.

Also, when I first read the posts and threads on this board, I'd get so discouraged as nothing seemed to work for me, and everyone else seemed to be doing so much better. But then Gabes sent out an "update" type post, and I saw she'd been dealing with the disease for 4 years. I realized I was still in the baby stages, so that helped me see my progress, however small, in perspective.

Hugs and healing!

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:32 pm

Polly,

Thanks, that made me feel better! I haven't added anything to my bland/boring diet for months now. I tried spaghetti squash the other week , but still had issues. I did MRT , but haven't even used the results yet as far as testing the low greens. I eat about 6 foods, and that's it. I am not totally paleo, because I eat Teff flour waffles, and arrowroot starch. If I didn't, I'd starve. :( If I could eat only veggies & meat, I would, but I react to veggies! I did eat grain free for two months this past summer to try to heal the leaky gut issues. You actually referred me to Nom Nom Paleo many months ago, and I follow that site on FB.
I am about 100 miles north/west of Pittsburgh....near Punsutawney Phil's home! Thank you for your kind words.

Tex,

It sounds like my arm pain is due to my fall. I fell out of my sliding glass doors, about 4 feet on to my patio, and landed on my head! Not, a fun experience, but I think it was due to my brain fog from the MC and three straight month of constant D! I was a mess!
I am totally strict with my diet...even over Christmas, I kept to the plan. Regarding my right thumb, I call it my mouse thumb, because I felt that due to being on the computer a lot, at work, I was straining it, which may be the case. It hurts more than the left thumb. Just being on the computer now, aggravates it....so, I'd better give it a break! I am very grateful for your wisdom!

Jennifer,

Due to my fall, I still experience vertigo, and can't do most yoga positions although my old yoga teacher said she'd come by and work out a routine for my that doesn't involve dropping my head. The last time I tried by myself, I nearly passed out! :( So, I hope that I can get back to it in the future. I think I'll hint to my husband about the massage....sounds so good! I appreciate your taking the time to comment on my situation!

carolm · Post by **carolm** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:17 pm

HI Linda,
It's a complex journey we are on, but it sounds like you really are doing better. If you are only one year in you are still healing and that's just a slippery slope in my experience. I'm in remission now but one year after diagnosis I was eating chicken, beef, turkey, carrots, potatoes, rice, Chex and almond butter-- over and over. It was too soon for fruit or fiber of any kind and any sugar or fat was sure to create problems. I never took probiotics, glucosamine, herbal supplements, and definitely didn't attempt fermented foods. I'm in remission without those things. The simple diet is the way to go!

Fast forward to now: I'm eating chicken, beef, turkey, shrimp, carrots, squashes, cauliflower, green beans, Chex, almonds, and occasionally rice cakes. I've had to stop potatoes because I seem to ache more the next day after I eat them. I've gone 85% paleo. So it's evolved over time. At my sickest I had to eat potatoes to get enough calories and seemed to do fine. Now I can't have them, but can have other vegetables. I can eat fruit about every other day. So it's not unusual to try a food like fruit only to decide after a few weeks to drop it back out and wait. Two steps forward, one back. When I was finally able to add vitamins I went with Vitafusion Gummies-- they don't upset my stomach the way pills did. It takes lots of experimentation and healing is s-l-o-w. It took me every bit of 2 years, and I had to have acupuncture to get rid of the nausea and take Amitriptyline for motility issues, but it's worth the work.

You'll get there.

Carol

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:41 am

The diet may seem bland, but if it is not causing inflammation and you are absorbing nutrients then it is the perfect way to healing, there is no quick fix for gut healing and microbe/gut fora levels. Time, patience, and avoiding inflammatory events/triggers is the best process.

Strange question, are you sure that it is the joints, and not the muscles?
If it might be the muscles, magnesium spray, Epsom salt foot soaks/baths will help.

JenniferS · Post by **JenniferS** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:53 am

Gabe, I get muscle pain (flu-like body aches), and have taken hot baths but have never tried Epsom baths. Gonna try that! :)

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:06 pm

Carol, I really appreciate the calming words of wisdom. I need to hear them. I guess sometimes I read of people who magically get back on track and add new foods after only a few months of a strict diet, and I feel there is something wrong with me.....or additional issues I should be addressing, or that I need to be taking something to encourage healing.....with my numerous food sensitivities, I should realize it's going to take time.

Gabes, My thumbs are joint pain. I've had it in my right thumb for several years now. I use the computer and my Kindle a lot, and I think the repetition has contributed to the soreness.
Have you moved yet?

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:40 pm

Linda, re sticking to the diet, the process of gut healing and the digestive organs also healing from years of tainted digestion (leaky gut puts a lot of pressure on the liver)
The progress is so gradual, it is easy to doubt whether it is working. Rather than monitoring progress on a weekly basis, monthly may be a better time frame to look back and gauge progress....

Moving yes mmmmmm or AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGG,
I am in the depths of packing.
The moving truck will be here Monday morning (Aussie time so about 48hrs from now.)
This is the first time in 20 years that I can't put things unpacked in my car and do a transfer
I have to have EVERYTHING, packed into boxes! And fully labelled.
Including any dirty washing....I won't get to the new place for a few days after, it may be my mother that is opening the box.
Some things were already packed, I spent a day sorting and re packing so items that can be long term store be marked that way...
All in all move no. 34 is going ok.
Thanks to some acupuncture treatment earlier in the week my body has been quite good, today some niggly pain has returned...

brandy · Post by **brandy** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:09 pm

Hello Linda,

The following has helped me with hand\finger joint pain:

-switch from using my mouse with my right hand to using the mouse in my left hand. This took about three days to retrain my brain. You have to change a setting on your computer to reverse the mouse buttons.
-yoga. In lieu of that I saw some good stretching exercises on web M. D. Look at the stretching exercises in the discussion on rheumatoid of arthritis.
-splints. Wear a splint on your right hand to bed. Get the firm ones that are about 12 inches long. Don't get the soft squishy kind that look like a glove. This will help your hand\fingers from bending while you were sleeping. I also where the splint when I am mousing.
-minimize repetitive motion with your fingers---what Tex said.

Brandy