Gum infection returned and Amoxicillin

Chrisdat · Post by **Chrisdat** » Sun May 25, 2014 4:47 am

I had my first gum infection a month ago. Acute necrotizing ulcerative gingivitis.

Three questions: My dental health history has been superb. 2x a year cleanings and always an excellent report on teeth, gums, and my dental hygeine. Now I'm plagued with a un-healing and returning gum infection since the onset of LC. Is this due to nutritional defiences? I am not controlled at all on Endicort and Pepto and continue to lose weight and have many episodes of WD.

What can has anyone done to help keep their mouth healthy? Tips?

I will have to go back on Amoxicillin for a longer term than the last 10 day course. I've read in the medications section of this forum, that Amoxicillin is not good for MC. Any antibiotics suggestions that would be better for stopping this Acute Necrotizing Ulcerative Gum Infection?

Thanks -Chris

Pat · Post by **Pat** » Sun May 25, 2014 8:05 am

http://antibioticsfor.com/ANUG.phtml

Maybe this helps.
Pat

Chrisdat · Post by **Chrisdat** » Sun May 25, 2014 8:24 am

Pat - very helpful! Fortunately not as bad as the photo in that link.

Coconut oil pulling as well. Anti-viral, anti-microbial. Trench mouth is a horrible name. I prefer ANUG!

I wish I could get the right bacterial cultures in my GI tract as well as my mouth. It appears all linked.

Post by **tex** » Sun May 25, 2014 9:03 am

Hi Chris,

I'm sorry to hear that you're having peridontal problems. Probably the only other antiobiotic option available to your dentist, based on current "best recommended practices" guidelines (and friendly to MC) is metronidazole (Flagyl). It would be safer from an MC standpoint, because it's prescribed to treat C. diff, therefore it is less likely to cause a C. diff infection (however, some antibiotic-resistant strains of C. diff are immune to metronidazole).

Here's a link to an article about such issues, if you are interested in reading more about it:

Systemic antibiotic therapy in periodontics

It is known that gluten causes enamel thinning in people who are sensitive to it. I don't recall seeing any research data on possible damage to gums or other components. After I cut gluten out of my diet (several years later) my accelerated tooth damage finally ended. But for a while, (after symptoms initially began to present), trying to stop/prevent tooth damage was mission impossible.

I could be wrong (because this is strictly a WAEG), but I would guess that mast cell activation disorder is a primary cause of your peridontal inflammation. If my hunch is correct, then antibiotics may provide temporary relief (since antibiotics can suppress inflammation), but after the treatment regimen ends, your peridontal issues will probably return (as long as mast cells are still an issue. The problem is that for anyone who has active mast cell activation issues (for whatever reason), there will be exaggerated mast cell reactions associated with virtually all other inflammatory issues. This will cause otherwise minor problems to escalate to cause major issues.

Note that this is just my opinion, but I believe that it is accurate. I also have a hunch that your mast cell issues may be trumping/overwhelming the Entocort and Pepto-Bismol treatments.

Here is an abstract of an old article:

Mast cells in gingival inflammations.

And research is still lagging. Here's a recent article that shows only a little progress in the 23 year period since that first article was published:

Correlation of mast cells in periodontal diseases

I hope that you will be able to get an appointment to see Dr. Castells.

Tex

Chrisdat · Post by **Chrisdat** » Sun May 25, 2014 9:38 am

Tex - Thank you. The article on correlation of mast cells in periodontal disease is very helpful, as is the recommendation for Flagyl. I can't see my dentist till Tues (Memorial Day in the US on Monday), but my PCP called in Amoxicillin for me just now, which I'll start. I see my PCP on Tues. as well and will give these articles to her. She is very good about reading the few helpful things I can pass on, while we wait for the Brigham-Women's appointment.

GOOD NEWS - I was accepted to be seen in the Brigham Women's Mastocytosis Center. As you know, it's not easy to qualify to be seen. They require a history of other treatment options failing, a lot of previous tests to rule out other causes, previous colon/endoscopy biopsies (if GI) and a very detailed and specific symptom list. They really want to screen for Mast Cell issues only.

Bad news, I'm seeing Dr. Matthew Williams (good Dr.) but in mid-July was the earliest. 6 more weeks, and at the rate of progression I've been seeing having in the last month, this delay makes me a little anxious. But my PCP knows someone in the clinic (I think a fellow) who can probably see me earlier, and at least get some of the testing started.

After seeing Dr. Castells video on Vimeo - I realized how complicated the various diagnosis' are, and how significantly the treatments differ depending on the specific Mast Cell involvement type. I realized self-treating with my PCP and GI (as good as they are!) is not the best direction with Mast Cell involvement.

Thank you again to you (my PCP asked if she could keep your BOOK!, of course I said yes, and immediately ordered two more - a spare for one of many Dr.'s who might show an interest in MC and Mast Cell portion.) and to this forum. Without the book and forum, I can't imagine where I'd be.

Lastly, I learned a lot about local anesthesia and nerve-blocking agent and degranulation of mast cells/and/histamine response googling around. I've printed out the list for my Dentist. She has been using Lidocaine and nerve blocks (not sure which ones) - so going to have to work on that as my dental work plays out. Those agents trigger histamine and/or mast cell degranulation!

Post by **tex** » Sun May 25, 2014 10:25 am

Chris,

Surely Dr. Williams will consult with Dr. Castells, so that you will probably get the benefit of all the doctors in that group, but you're right, it's tough to have to wait that long for an appointment when your symptoms are so active.

You are most welcome. I hope that you can begin seeing some relief soon.

Tex

JFR · Post by **JFR** » Sun May 25, 2014 11:28 am

COq10 is supposed to be helpful for gum disease:

"Coenzyme Q10. Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10), a vital nutrient needed by every cell in the body to make energy, is beneficial for a variety of diseases and disorders, including periodontal disease. In addition to energy production, CoQ10 plays a vital role as an antioxidant at the cellular level by neutralizing free radicals. As early as the 1970s, researchers found that gum tissue in people with periodontal disease was often deficient in CoQ10 (Nakamura 1974; Hansen 1976). Subsequent studies have shown that CoQ10 doses of 50 to 75 mg daily can halt deterioration of the gums and allow healing to occur, sometimes within days of starting therapy. In one double-blind trial, 50 mg daily of CoQ10 was significantly more effective than placebo in reducing symptoms of gingivitis after three weeks of treatment (Wilkinson 1976).

Stephen T. Sinatra, M.D., clinical cardiologist and author, reports that many of his patients see improvement in their gum health after beginning CoQ10 supplementation for heart disease. According to research by Sinatra, CoQ10's supportive effects on the immune system in general account for its ability to promote healing of diseased gums. Dr. Victor Zeines, a holistic dentist and author, recommends 100 mg of CoQ10 daily in combination with other supplements to help reverse gum disease naturally."

Here's the whole article:

http://www.lef.org/protocols/dental/gingivitis_05.htm

Jean

Post by **tex** » Sun May 25, 2014 12:00 pm

Excellent article!

Thanks.

Tex

Chrisdat · Post by **Chrisdat** » Sun May 25, 2014 12:27 pm

Jean, terrific article. Ordering the COQ10, and going to look at the oral probiotic lozenges as well. The evidence for bad bacteria colonizing in the mouth syncs with Tex's links above. I would love to give the good a chance to beat the bad guys:( thanks.

christinakay · Post by **christinakay** » Sun May 25, 2014 12:33 pm

Chris

Just be careful with CoQ10. Many contain soybean oil.

Christina

JFR · Post by **JFR** » Sun May 25, 2014 12:35 pm

christinakay wrote:Chris

Just be careful with CoQ10. Many contain soybean oil.

Christina

I've used this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Origins-U ... free+coq10

Jean

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sun May 25, 2014 1:24 pm

Chris,

I use CoQ10 lingual and I brush my gums with liquid zinc.
And yes, double /triple check inactive ingredients for soy.

Before any dental appointment, I take H1 and H2 antihistamines.
Even some of the cleaners can trigger a histamine reaction, especially now that I know how super sensitive us MC'ers can be.

I have done oil pulling a couple of times with coconut oil, struggle to hold it for the full time.
I find brushing the gums with the zinc easier/quicker.
(The zinc is also for balancing histamine)

Good luck with the doctors/specialists re the mast cells.

Post by **tex** » Sun May 25, 2014 1:47 pm

Also remember that some dental cleaning compounds contain gluten. Some dentists seem to be aware of the problem, while many are not. GF compounds are available, but they would have to be ordered in advance, if your dentist is not already using them.

Tex

Chrisdat · Post by **Chrisdat** » Sun May 25, 2014 7:16 pm

Absolutely terrific info. Ordered zinc and CoQ10. Thanks. Looks like I may have to settle in to a long term battle against ANUG, so I appreciate the solutions that may help minimize going on antibiotics so frequently.

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sun May 25, 2014 7:36 pm

Chris
you are not alone, for many here, once MC has kick started, dental issues are very common amongst the group (nasty dental issues)

Since my MC diagnosis, i have had 4 Molers removed, and repairs to 5 others.
I know that Joe, Polly, Stanz have also had some 'messy' dental issues in the past 5 years.

I am doing all I can to keep my remaining molers.

The zinc is fantastic, after any moler remover, i gently place drops of the zinc liquid on the gum to assist healing.
For one of my surgical removals, the maxifollation specialist was surprised that with my medical history how well my gum healed, he was expecting me to have infections and issues. I was way ahead in the healing stage of all the other patients he worked on that day. ( I had also upped the Vit d3)