Magnesium, Stomach Acid and Menthol

[jbrohlr]

Hello All,

I have been pondering lately on why I cannot absorb Magnesium through my digestive tract, and I am wondering if my levels of stomach acid would help. I found lots of literature on how Mg affects stomach acid (reduces it - Tums for example) but not alot on how stomach acid affects Mg absorption. The one item I found was with Duck-Duck-Go's search assist (their AI?). It claims that:

"Yes, stomach acid plays a role in the absorption of magnesium. Adequate stomach acid helps to dissolve magnesium salts, making it easier for the body to absorb this essential mineral."

So, I am considering experimenting with Mg and Betaine HCL to see if it helps with absorption. I did a search on this site to see if this has already been tried but no luck. Any thoughts?

The other item is adding menthol to my transdermal magnesium applications. Did a search on this site and it does not seem like menthol is a problem (topically anyway). There was an indication that menthol can be poisonous if a large amount is ingested.

Once again Duck-Duck-Go's search assist states that:

Magnesium Permeation Through Skin

Mechanism of Permeation
Magnesium can permeate the skin, but its absorption is limited due to the skin's protective barrier.
The outer layer, known as the stratum corneum, is particularly resistant to the penetration of substances.
However, certain formulations can enhance magnesium's ability to penetrate this barrier.

Enhancers of Permeation
Menthol is one such enhancer that can significantly improve the permeability of magnesium when applied topically.
It interacts with the skin's lipid structure, allowing magnesium to pass through more effectively.
This means that creams containing menthol can facilitate better absorption of magnesium into the skin.

So, I thought I would try menthol, unless someone has a horror story involving menthol.

Hope everyone is well,
John R.

[tex]

I don't have any horror stories regarding menthol — as far as I'm aware, it should be safe to use (at least, in moderation).

But as far as I'm aware, menthol isn't likely to significantly enhance the absorption of magnesium. Menthol will indeed enhance the absorption of fat-soluble substances, but magnesium is a horse of a different color. Magnesium is a small, but highly charged ion, and charged molecules are poorly transported across the epidermal barrier, even with penetration enhancers. A small amount may be transmitted by way of sweat glands or hair follicles, but significant absorption into the bloodstream is unlikely, as best I can determine.

Sorry that I couldn't be more encouraging, because I previously thought that it could be absorbed in at least moderate amounts, but just to check it out, I looked it up, and the published research doesn't look good for magnesium absorption through the skin.

Tex

[HockeyMom]

I take oral magnesium and Betaine HCl (stomach acid). Before I trusted my gut to oral mag, I literally slathered myself with mag oil/lotion 3x/day for quite awhile. At some point I added Betaine HCl to the mix (life was much better with cholestyramine but not great yet..) which I obviously needed because the gut "churning" stopped and poop got better. I think I was crazy magnesium deficient (won't bore you with the story)-this also got better as everything else got better. I don't know if the Betaine HCl helped with that or not...just my experience.

I've been able to cut my Betaine HCl dosage down over the years (taken with the start of a meal)...

I don't think it would hurt to try it!!!

Laine

[jbrohlr]

Thank you, Tex and Laine,

Tex, I apologize for picking your brain on the Mg absorption issue, but is the reason that the Mg ion does not permeate very well because of its positive charge being repelled by a (possible) positive charge on our skin and/or muscle tissue? On a related question, is it possible that the itching/burning that people feel after applying Mg oil because the Mg ion is separating from the (2) chloride atoms and then reacting to the evaporating moisture on our skin?

Also, Laine, do you currently take Mg orally? I'm dreading the diarrhea I'll go through if Betaine HCL does not help, but I think at this point it is worth the attempt. I did for a period take Betaine and there was also a time when I could tolerate small amounts of Magnesium Glycinate orally (close to 30mg). I'll have to dig through my old logs to see if the slight Mg tolerance and the Betaine ingestion coincided.

Again, thanks to both of you for replying,

John R.

[tex]

Compared with most substances that are easily absorbed through the skin, magnesium ions are relatively large and hydrophilic (water-loving, or water-soluble). They don’t mix well with fats or oils.

Our skin is designed to repel hydrophilic molecules (If it were not, we wouldn't be able to go swimming, and getting caught in a heavy rain could be disastrous

The outer layer of our skin is mostly fat-like (lipids). It works as a strong barrier against water and charged particles. That’s why it keeps us from absorbing minerals easily.

Absorption helpers don’t help much. Skin penetration enhancers are designed to help lipophilic (fat-loving) molecules get through the skin barrier. They don’t work nearly as well for charged, water-loving things like magnesium ions.

As for the itching, magnesium oil Isn’t really oil. It's usually just magnesium chloride dissolved in water. It feels oily, but it’s actually a salty solution. If you put it on your skin, it can draw water out of skin cells, causing a stinging or itching sensation.

Tex

[HockeyMom]

I do take mag glycinate daily John. Take one 120 mg pill with either 2 or 3 meals a day-just depends on if I eat lunch that day!! At work I eat so 4 days a week I get that 3rd dose-most times at home I don't eat lunch. I have tried stopping the mag a few times over the years and honestly I start getting "twitchy" and my sleep starts to deteriorate. Slowly....but it happens. So I've just resigned myself to needing to take it-

Years ago, Remag was a big topic of conversation on this site. It's liquid mag drops that you can add to water (or whatever liquid-) . It's not mag glycinate..some other form of magnesium. Anyhoo-that was the oral magnesium I slowly transitioned over to because I WAS A MESS and didn't trust my gut with much of anything back then. I assume they still sell it-I think I ordered it from Amazon but then that was years ago-

Laine

[Gabes-Apg]

Laine

I logged in to give similar reply to yours regarding the ReMag
The Dr Carolyn Dean ReMag product (liquid) was well tolerated by quite a few people here

I use small amount of practitioner only magnesium liquid (metabolics ) and use topical magnesium spray and magnesium chloride foot soaks
I googled liquid magnesium and I see quite a few products available (15 years ago there wasn't that many)

I am wondering if the liquid form is absorbed better


Interestingly it is magnesium and B6 that moderates bile acid.

[jbrohlr]

I've been on Betaine HCl for a week and there is a definite improvement. I'll take 2 capsules per meal (or 1 1/2 if it is a small meal). I have also tried a small amount of Magnesium Glycinate with my meal as well and so far so good.

The next thing I think I will try is Choline Citrate - it supposedly helps with absorption of Mg. The Citrate part makes me a little nervous though.

Wish me luck,

John R.

[tex]

Tex

[jbrohlr]

Well, good news on the Mg front.

I purchased choline (Essential Choline from Alkaline for Life) and liquid Magnesium (Liquid Magnesium with Trace Minerals from NOW Foods).

Throughout the course of a day I have been able to take totals of one and a half tsp of Choline and 3/4 tsp of the elemental Magnesium. Taken with meals of course. Only had a few problems at the start of regimen (I started out with smaller amounts) - I think because I was not taking enough Choline in proportion to the Mg.

Three fourths of a teaspoon of the liquid Mg equals roughly 400mg of elemental Mg (according to NOW Foods, 1/4 tsp equals 133mg). Hopefully they are being honest about their product. The water I mix it in does have an oily texture to it so likely they are on the level.

Also started taking Iodine since I am not eating anything that contains much, and the salt I use (sparingly) is not fortified with Iodine. No problems there either.

I waited a while to post about this - was worried about jumping the gun on results, but I have been dosing Choline and Mg long enough now to be confident it is not a problem.

John R.

[tex]

Thanks for the update. That's good news.

Tex

[Gabes-Apg]

In MC world our bodies are a ever changing chemical experiment!

keep listening to your body, make changes slowly and be patient to gauge if the change is providing benefit