Hotrod - About Mast Cells . . .

Post by **tex** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:37 am

Sorry for the tardy response to your question. I was out working most of the afternoon, and I had a long meeting last night, and didn't get a chance to check the board in between. When I got back from the meeting last night, I was too sleepy to look up these references, but here are some articles about mast cells that should answer your questions. The last one is the same one that Faith has mentioned in her Journal, and she has also added it to the original thread that you responded to, about this topic, I believe.

http://thefooddoc.blogspot.com/2008/02/ ... demic.html

http://thefooddoc.blogspot.com/2008/04/ ... -five.html

http://thefooddoc.blogspot.com/2008/02/ ... -i-be.html

http://www.allergynutrition.com/resourc ... erance.pdf

Faith has been studying this topic a lot longer than I have, except for what I've been reading in the Food Doc's blogs over the past year.

Regarding advice/opinions, I have a hunch that for some of us who are unable to achieve remission, and particularly those who have ruled out other issues, such as SIBO, parasitites, C. diff, etc., mast cell reactions could certainly be a factor, especially for those who have an immediate adverse response after eating foods that aren't considered to be 'normal" triggers for MC. As usual, though, YMMV.

Tex

RUBYREDDOG · Post by **RUBYREDDOG** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:34 am

Tex, Thanks for the links and your advice. Should make for some interesting reading this weekend.

Faith, you have some interesting insight on this subject. Also your experiences with MC are very valuable to us here. It's a little scary that one could have additional medical problems with food intolerances, or in this case allergies, even after achieving remission. Sounds like you have been through a lot. Thankyou for your posts.

Hotrod

faithberry · Post by **faithberry** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:49 pm

Hotrod,

I appreciate your kind words.

I recently learned that I was exposed on several occasions to a floor maintenance product that contains toxic ingredients and was not applied properly, with the required safeguards. This explains a lot because whatever you breathe, you swallow. The gut can be a target organ for toxic chemicals, as can just about every system or organ in the body. One of the ingredients of this stuff is an immunotoxicant, so it can alter immune function. With my lymphocytic colitis history, my immune system would already be primed for quick action, and I am probably more vulnerable than your average healthy person. I believe I had another toxic exposure prior to this involving high sulfur heating oil, which made me vulnerable as well, and then I think a bug triggered the LC to start. That's how it works with autoimmune conditions, there's a genetic propensity and then an environmental trigger, whether it's a bug, a toxin, etc. LC is not yet determined to be an auto-immune condition, but that's one theory.

Because of all this, my situation is probably very unique and not very representative of what typically happens when someone has gone into remission. So please don't feel it's a scary prospect as it's probably very unlikely to happen to anyone here.

It's been an interesting journey and I've learned a lot in the process. If what I've learned can benefit anyone here, that's wonderful! Now that I know the trigger, I am able to get the appropriate medical help. I don't know what exactly the illness is, but at least I can take homeopathic medicine to counteract and help release the toxins. I feel like things are turning around and moving in an upward direction.

Post by **tex** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:18 pm

Faith,

Remember that you can also absorb toxic chemicals through the skin, whether in liquid or vapor form. Some organic phospate poisons are so potent that relatively small amounts absorbed through the skin can be debilitating, and even fatal, especially if the exposure is prolonged, (as in the case when it is in an area where a person spends a lot of time each day).

Tex

RUBYREDDOG · Post by **RUBYREDDOG** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:09 am

Tex, I read all the info you provided from the links to the "food doc". I don't have any of the obvious physical signs of a histamine reaction.( runny nose or watery eyes, ect.) So I may be o.k. with regard to the histamine reaction causing foods.

One thing that you mentioned was an immediate adverse response after eating foods that aren't considered to be 'normal". What did you mean by that? Is the timing relevant in a histamine reaction to foods?

Hotrod

Post by **tex** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:51 am

Hotrod,

Maybe I've been misreading the information on mast cell reactions, (in the gut - not in the respiratory system), but I didn't realize that they resulted in the classic allergy symptoms. True food allergy is indeed an IgE mediated type I immediate immune response, known as an allergy. The mast cell reactions that we are talking about here, though, involve non-immune type delayed reactions, resulting from mediator release from immune cells. The point is that this is not food allergy per se, instead, it's a form of non-immune food intolerance, or sensitivity reaction.

Hotrod wrote:One thing that you mentioned was an immediate adverse response after eating foods that aren't considered to be 'normal". What did you mean by that? Is the timing relevant in a histamine reaction to foods?

Good question. Remember that I said that this was just a hunch, but theoretically, at least, MC, (by definition, in fact), is a disease of the colon, (only - IOW colitis means inflammation of the colon). Therefore, since according to normal transit time studies, (which vary greatly from individual to individual, and by food types, and other considerations), it typically takes around two and a half hours for any food to reach the colon, after being ingested, and most food components will take much longer to make that trip, (since the small intestine is what? - roughly at least 20 to 25 feet long?), how could the colon even be aware that some trigger food had been ingested, hours before the colon is actually exposed to it.

http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pa ... ansit.html

IOW, I don't see how/why it would make that trip in just a few minutes, which implies that the "purge" signal is triggered by something far upstream of the colon, probably either in the stomach, or the duodenum. So where could the signal be originating? Well, one possibility is mast cells, which are found not just in the skin, but also in all other epithelia, including the lining of the internal surfaces of body cavities, tubes, etc, and more specifically, in the entire GI tract. That means that if a mast cell response is a contributing factor, then theoretically, the immune system could begin to generate signals as soon as a trigger food first touches the lips, or anywhere downstream of there. Remember that the order of magnitude of the response times that we are talking about here, (10 or 15 minutes, or so), are in the same category as the response times for anaphylactic reactions. Ergo, my suspicion that mast cell responses of some form, are ultimately responsible for such fast reactions of the colon. IOW, circumstantial evidence also points a finger at mast cells. What other form of immune system response results in such rapid symptoms? None, that I am aware of.

Remember, I'm just thinking out loud here, and most of this has not been proven by medical research.

Tex

faithberry · Post by **faithberry** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:10 am

Some people with mastocytosis or mast cell activation disorder get very quick reactions like diarrhea, nausea, flushing etc.because there is a massive degranulation of mast cells that is not IgE mediated, as Tex points out. This is medically verified in this disease. Others with mast cell problems are 'leakers,' where the mast cells leak more slowly and cause chronic symptoms.

Histamine is involved in many different bodily functions like gut motility, smooth muscle contraction, tears, pain perception, etc. It's also a neurotransmitter in the brain and can be associated with depression, anxiety. Not having classic allergy symptoms like a runny nose or itchy eyes, does not preclude having a mast cell reaction. It depends where the mast cells are acting up.

Mast cells are also involved in classic allergy symptoms.

This is my understanding, but then I'm not an expert by any means! Faith

RUBYREDDOG · Post by **RUBYREDDOG** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:36 am

Tex, Thanks for your reply. I was basing my questions from the last link you provided (allergynutrition.com) where "SYMPTOMS OF HISTAMINE EXCESS" are listed. Not having watery eyes, nose etc. I assumed (probably incorrectly) that I don't have a histamine reaction problem. But, now I'm not sure, as you bring up the fact that the gut reaction is a factor of the mast cell influence. Sorry for the confusion on my part.

Hotrod

RUBYREDDOG · Post by **RUBYREDDOG** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:49 am

Faith, Thanks for that clarification. Between you and Tex, I think the light bulb is starting to turn on. I was looking for a more definitive sign, beyond those of the LC symptoms that I still have, and am trying to solve, to indicate a mast cell reaction.

Hotrod

faithberry · Post by **faithberry** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:25 am

If you only have extra mast cells in your colon, then it might just be the D! Probably the only way to know is to try a histamine restricted diet for awhile and see if it makes a difference for you. The only challenge is that there's not one clear list but between the Vickerstaff-Joneja diet (from International Chronic Urticaria Society) and the Histame list (in my journal) the bases are fairly well covered. There isn't much agreement when it comes to nuts though!

RUBYREDDOG · Post by **RUBYREDDOG** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:12 am

Faith, I suspect you are right regarding the histamine restricted diet. Sometimes I feel (as Tex often states) that almost any food can cause a reaction. With cross contamination, protein and amino acid chains etc. etc., is there anything other than water that is safe to ingest???

I guess the tea, wine and olives will be the next items eliminated. Perhaps that will lower my histamine intake to the "tolerance level" they refer to in the articles that Tex listed.

What is your opinion regarding walnuts?

Hotrod

faithberry · Post by **faithberry** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:48 pm

Not sure about walnuts. They are OK on ICUS list. I haven't been able to eat them for a long time.

My other list of "amines," which includes any type of amine, therefore might include histamine and might not, says:

Very Low
Chestnut, horse chestnut, pine nut, pistachio

Low
Almond, cashew, coconut, macadamia nut
---Not sure about the coconut though

Moderate
Brazil nut, hazelnut

High
Pecan, Walnut

Very High
Butternut

Good luck! Water would be a pretty meager diet!

RUBYREDDOG · Post by **RUBYREDDOG** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:14 am

Water only.....that would be a meager diet. I'm beginning to think I made an error in judgement thinking I could obtain remission through diet only. Since I seem to have multiple intolerances, (getting more on the multiple side lately) I feel that I would be further along toward remission if I had also taken Entocort from the beginning. The success of many on this board, with Entocort, has had a bearing on my opinion.

That seems to be my next step, even though I really hate to take prescription drugs. The water only diet seems to be the only other option.

Hotrod

Post by **tex** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:32 am

Hotrod,

Sometimes, the gut just needs to be jolted back to reality. It's much easier to maintain remission, than it is to achieve it in the first place. With any luck at all, after a respectable healing period, you would probably be able to not only reduce the Entocort dose to a minimum, but eventually eliminate it altogether.

Tex

faithberry · Post by **faithberry** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:53 am

HotRod,

I'm revisiting drugs too, as I just read that oxalates 'may' cause histamine release too. Oh great! Now every food is crossed off my list!!!!! Whatever you decide, I wish you success.