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It's been a really long time since I've been on here. Good to see you all again. Tex, I just read your message about your recent scare - sending you really good wishes that you're feeling better very soon.
Question for Polly or others who might know - I've been belatedly realizing how much I need to take calcium, and I was reading today that I need magnesium and phosphate, as well. I know, however, that magnesium can reek havoc with us MC-ers. Does anyone know how much magnesium and phosphate I should be taking if I'm getting 1,000 mg of calcium citrate every day? (I already take a vit-d supplement.)
It's good to hear from you again - I hope your MC is behaving itself, and you're doing well, these days.
Thanks, I appreciate your good wishes, and I am feeling much better.
Here's an abstract of a research project that advocates a 2 to 1 calcium/magnesium ratio, (down at the bottom of the report). Unfortunately, they don't appear to mention phosphate in the article:
Hopefully, someone who knows more about it, will be along to offer help on your question.
It's great to see a post from you again, after such a long absence,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Magnesium surely does cause diarrhea - it's what's in Milk of Magnesia and is used as a laxative. The key to avoiding the laxative effect is to space it out and, of course, to not take too much. I think there is little risk of overdose because it will be excreted, but consider where you might be getting it in your diet, like nuts dreid fruits etc. The RDA is about 400 mg and I have read that a good ratio is about 2:1 with calcium. Since you take 1000 mg calcium, you might want to take 500 mg calcium in the morning with 200 mg magnesium and then the same at night. You cannot absorb 1000 mg calcium at one time. IMO it's best to try to actually eat real food instead of relying totally on supplements, so maybe add some rich magnesium sources to your diet.
You are already taking the best source of calcum as far as absorption is concerned (citrate), so I wouldn't switch to calcium phosphate. Phosphate is an ion that contains phosphorus, so unless you are sure you are deficient in phosphorus there is probably no need to supplement. We actually get a pretty good amount from our diet in meats, nuts, eggs, and if you drink soft drinks you most likely get more than enough. People can get out of balance with phosphorus if they are very ill or have kidney disease, but I really question the need to supplement, but others may have a different opinion.
Hi Tex and mbeezie - thanks so much for your responses. They're both helpful. My sense from reading about magnesium-rich foods is that I probably get plenty of that mineral from my diet, so very likely I don't need to supplement. Oh, and mbeezie - I do separate the calcium: 500 in the morning and 500 at night. Glad to know that's the recommended way to do it.
I've been handling the MC pretty well through diet for quite some time. The one thing that's still really hanging on is my fatigue - but I was dealing with that long before MC came into the picture. Right now I'm working with a woman who specializes in homeopathy and energetic healing. I think it's helping - at least it's made a significant difference in other parts of my life. I just like to pop in here every now and again to make sure I'm up to date.
FYI, Mary Beth is a licensed dietitian, with multiple food sensitivities herself, so she's a valuable asset to this board. Most dietitians don't understand food sensitivities very well, unfortunately, so we're hoping that she can help to educate them.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
That was a good article, Tex. Actually, I need to get back to the magnesium I used to take. I have a parathyroid that just doesn't put out like it should, most likely due to having to have them autotransplanted back in during the thyroidectomy. I don't think that's an uncommon phenomenon -- they just don't like people messing with 'em, but at least they are still working some.
The low parathyroid hormone makes me a little bit different than most osteoporosis patients, I think.
Bluebonnet vitamins makes a liquid calcium magnesium supplement with the calcium all in the citrate form. It's magnesium is a combination of citrate or aspartate form. I'm not sure whether or not that means "either/or," but I should think it means both as it doesn't say "either/or" on the label. I wish it said what percentage of each is present. Anyway, maybe it doesn't matter so much about the form of magnesium, and part of it is citrate, at least.
Mary Beth, do you know anything about aspartate in combination with magnesium?
Both calcium and magnesium are said to be "elemental." It is also free of most allergens.
A serving size of two tablespoons is 1200 mg of Calcium and 600 mg of Magnesium, so I suppose that one could take one tablespoon in two doses during the course of a day.
Mary Beth, do you know what the shortest time would be before it would be safe to repeat a dose?
One thing I do know is that when I took the Vitamin D and this calcium/magnesium liquid -- one serving a day, my blood work came back really good, as well as my bone turnover. Only thing that was whacko was the parathyroid level. Maybe it will always be like that, but if I were a little more faithful to the Magnesium dosing, perhaps my parathyroid would produce a little more of it's hormone, and that would be even better to reverse my bone disorder. I've had a history of being negligent with the regimen, so now, I'm reallllly trying harder.
Magnesium deficiency just seems to fit my situation to a "tee." My endo had told me in the past that density wasn't the only issue -- that there were other factors related to matrix and strength of bone. Most of the bad effects will occur when I'm even older than I am now, thus the push to get it taken care of now.
Thanks for the good articles and information!
Yours, Luce
Oh, about the phosphates in sodas, they are DEFINITELY to be avoided. I've got to get back to not drinking the ones with that in them -- most of the more popular ones, I might add. A least of the ones I've had, the 365 Brand sodas don't use that in their products. Incidently, they use cane sugar instead of HFCS. They, unfortunately do have more carbs, which I need to cut down on, but at least when I've GOT to have one, I can just drink a little at a time of those rather than the phosphated drinks when I'm at home.
Phosphates in sodas contributes to the problem with the bones.
By the way, I don't think magnesium ever caused me to have diarrhea, but then, I didn't start on it until I was well into remission on the diet with totally normal stools. Maybe it would've been a problem while in active M.C., but I think I STILL would've benefitted from supplementation during that time.
If MC is under control (no diarrhea/malabsorption) then you should at least be able to absorb magnesium normally. I don't think it's a bad idea to take a little magnesium, especially since you are taking a fair amount of calcium.
Luce,
You probably need to be more vigilant with magnesium/calcium - don't need to be robbing the bone of more calcium. Bioavailability of any mineral is important to consider. I didn't know the answer about aspartate but I found a study that showed that chloride, aspartate and lactate salts all produce about the same bioavailability.
I also don't know the answer about how quickly you can take a second dose. My thinking is that it's like eating meals - we are able to absorb nutrients every few hours when we eat (providing normal GI motility), so taking a supplement via the oral route should be about the same. I wonder if the manufacturer could give a better answer.
Thanks for the info, Marybeth. This is really helpful. For you and any others, though, how do I know if I have malabsorption? Anytime I eat anything outside the range of what I know I can handle I instantly get cramps. Never have D - just cramping, sometimes enough to keep me awake at night - and sometimes when I'm pretty sure I haven't strayed from my diet at all. My holistic practitioner thinks that I'm probably still dealing with malabsorption. Would love to know how I can tell. Any thoughts?
Occasional diarrhea doesn't mean malabsorption. You can't really tell by looking at stool (not true that if they float it is indicative of malabsorption) but the smell is usually really offensive.
The easiest and most accurate way to see if you have malabsorption is to do the Enterolab test.
So, I've resisted doing the Enterolab testing because of the cost - and because sticking to my diet seems to be helping. But are there other reasons to do the testing? For example, if it tells me that I really do have malabsorption, how can that help me if I'm already trying to deal with MC through diet? (Probably I need to look through past posts on this.)
Well, if you are still malabsorbing then something you are doing still isn't right, IOW you are not healing as much as you think you are. Yes, it's a bit of a cost, but can answer the question instead of having your holistic practitioner guess at it. I was sure I was malabsorbing, but my test showed I wasn't - provided a bit of mental relief as well.
Amen to the foul odor!!! I used to hide my shoes in restrooms, and stay there til everyone left before sneaking out. I didn't want all those folks staring at me! I confess, I did obcess about the floaters for too long, but think that was just because I wanted everything "put back like it was!" Ha!
Oh, and don't forget the regular old blood tests for nutrients, both water and fat soluble, as you might be malabsorbing. I was long past getting to normal stools consistently when I discovered I was STILL malabsorbing B-12. I suppose that I would've found other nutrients lacking if they had been checked, but I'm just working on getting things back in range now without having actually checked them. I do, of course, keep close track of my bone related things, including Vit D.
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