Sourdough

[no-more-muffins]

What do you guys think of this:

http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/ar ... intolerant

Has anyone had any luck with eating bread where the the dough was allowed to ferment? I just thought it was an interesting thing to discuss. What about sprouted wheat? Anyone able to eat that?


I have the same question about soy and soy sauces. Can anyone who is intolerant to soy eat soy sauce?

[Gas Bag]

Extremely interesting article. It makes alot of sense to me.

I'm sure any commercially produced sourdough bread or muffins we can get our hands on have not sat long enough in the resting/fermenting process either.

I really like what he had to say about other foods, especially brown rice vs. white rice, that makes seems too.

[MaggieRedwings]

Morning NMM,

I can actually tolerate soy better than soy sauce and that is due to most soy sauces having wheat. There are a couple available (can't remember brand right now) in whole foods stores that have no wheat and are gluten free.

Love, Maggie

[Gas Bag]

Morning NMM,

I can actually tolerate soy better than soy sauce and that is due to most soy sauces having wheat. There are a couple available (can't remember brand right now) in whole foods stores that have no wheat and are gluten free.

Love, Maggie

San-J Tamari Soy Sauce, is a good brand, but any Tamari Soy Sauce is wheat free and tastes better actually that regular soy sauce.

Deb

[ant]

Dear NMM,

Thanks for posting the link. Very interesting and provocatively written - and goodness knows we need to provoke people to think. "Cereal Killers" - now that would make a great headline in a thought leadership campaign to shake people's thinking. Best ant

[tex]

Hmmmmmmmmm. Very interesting article - in many ways.

I can't disagree with the basic premise of what he says. The original foods were indeed far healthier than the "modern" versions. I have a hunch that if breads made using longer fermentation cycles were the rule, celiac disease would probably not be as prevalent, because it probably is easier to digest. However, that would not eliminate celiac disease, because celiac disease existed for thousands of years before "fast bread" was ever invented. Also, I seriously doubt that any of us, (who are gluten sensitive), would be able to eat any "slow fermented" bread, without reacting to the gluten that it contains. As a species, we would probably be better off with "slow fermented" bread, but as individuals, it's too late to look to that as a remedy.

It's also true that milk that has not been pasteurized, nor homogenized, is probably healthier. The pasteurization process was "sold" to the public, on the premise that it removes bacteria from the milk, and it's true that it does remove some bacteria. However, pasteurization does not remove the greatest bacterial risk, MAP bacteria, (Mycobacterium Avium subspecies Paratuberculosis), which are known to cause Johne's disease in cattle, and have long been suspected to cause Crohn's disease in humans, (though the connection has never been proven). The pasteurization is done primarily to extend the shelf life, and the process does indeed alter the original characteristics of milk, probably adversely, from a nutritional standpoint. Homogenization simply prevents the components from separating, IOW it prevents the cream, (butterfat), from rising to the top, the way it does with raw milk.

The remark about the Chinese not feeding bran to their pigs is almost surely true. Pigs have a digestive system very similar to the human digestive system, (a monongastric digestive system), and they can't tolerate very much roughage/fiber in their ration. I consider bran to be a rather harsh laxative. IOW, if you feel the need to eat bran, there's probably something wrong with your diet.

In defense of the "fast bread" concept, though, I feel that it's only fair to point out that the main difference between the faster process, and the older one, is the addition of more yeast, so that the reaction propagates from many, many more initiation points, and the use of optimal temperatures, moisture levels, etc., so that the yeast is able to propagate under optimum conditions. The end result should be very similar, unless different strains of yeast are used. I have no idea what the nutritional differences might be in this case. Sometimes speeding up a process improves the retention of nutrients, and sometimes it diminishes them, depending on the nature of the process, itself.

There are a few bread manufacturers who bake bread supposedly made from sprouted grain. While it's possible that such bread might be easier to digest for some individuals, due to the enzyme changes created by the sprouting process, those products are not gluten-free. Some of them are low-gluten, so it may take a little longer to get sick from them. IOW, while sprouting may reduce the gluten level, it does not eliminate it. The sprouting is only allowed to proceed to the point where limited enzymatic changes take place, before it is terminated, so most of the enzymatic processes are not completed. If the chemical reactions were allowed to finish, the grain would no longer be suitable for baking bread, because the kernels would become too "mushy" to allow them to be milled into flour. Primarily, (as far as the grain quality characteristics, and/or bread-making, is concerned), the enzymes activated during the sprouting process, convert some of the starch in the kernel, back into sugar.

Anyway, IMO, the bottom line is, don't expect "slow fermentation" of bread, to remove any risk of a gluten reaction, for anyone who is gluten sensitive.

Thanks for posting that - it's a very interesting article.

Tex

[Lucy]

Hi gang!

By the time I'd removed the others of my sensitivities, my overall "load" threshold was pretty low.
It took those delicious frozen waffles made of soy FLOUR (would have to be alot of it) to make me SURE that soy was a problem since I was so strict and knew my ingredients VERY well by then. I just wasn't having even a tiny one time trickle unless I'd gotten some contamination or had another food sensitivity by that point.

I had noticed that icky feeling in my tummy and lower gut with the rumbles when I'd eat San-J wheatless soy sauce on something, but then, that's such a tiny amount, that I'm not surprized I only felt it, rather than had a little watery diarrhea in my (by then) formed stools. Since I seldom ate this, and was otherwise back to normal on my gfdfefyf diet, then I thought it was just a normal thing or maybe I'd overeaten with too much rice or something. Could be the proteins in that soy (since it comes from Japan and shouldn't be modified like here , I believe) would be less of a problem, but I really think it was just a lesser amount.
Those waffles sure gave me the runs though -- was that ever a surprise!! Took sooo long for that soy tests to become available, so I really would still have the sauce on very rare occasions until I verified the soy sensitivity with EL. I wasn't surprised at the results, but it wasn't all that hard to give that sauce up by then -- had it so seldom anyway.

By the way, it's easy to find a couple of things without soy on the gf menu at Pei Wei's and PF Chang's, the latter having more variety, and some neat ideas for mixing your sauce if you have a good waiter.
Haven't eaten there in forever -- hmm, this has made me want to go there SOON!

Bottom line is that I don't ingest these non-gluten sensitivities because they are capable of doing damage to the lining of the gut, even without symptoms, just as is gluten. It's just not worth taking a chance.

Yours, Luce

[Gloria]

Lucy,

What do you eat for breakfast?

Gloria