Rice Dream really gluten free?

no-more-muffins · Post by **no-more-muffins** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:41 am

I am wondering what to do about Rice Dream brand milk. On some celiac forums people say they react to it. The Rice Dream people use barley in their processing and they used to put it on their ingredient label. They do not put it on their label any more but they have not changed they way they manufacture it.

I know they are technically less than 20 ppm of gluten, but that doesn't mean they are gluten free.

Does anyone here use Rice Dream without problems? Anyone have problems with R.D. It is the least expensive and most available rice milk and I'd like to be able to use it.

Thanks for your experience.

Courtney · Post by **Courtney** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:40 am

My understanding is that Rice Dream meets the govt. standards for GF labeling, which is that it comes in below the level where the govt. says you can call a product GF. But it's not really, and it seems like the number is rather arbitrary. Some people will react to that level and some won't. I stopped drinking it because it contains carageenan, which I thought I might be intolerant of. You can make your own rice milk, and I think Gloria does that. I am considering joining her, both due to the expense of Almond Dream, which I've been eating, and because I don't entirely trust Almond Dream either.

Courtney

ant · Post by **ant** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:06 am

Thanks for your post. I have been wondering about Rice Dream and felt it often caused a little tummy rumble. I will go off it to see if I improve. Best ant

Post by **tex** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:45 pm

NMM,

We discussed that a couple of years ago, and you might get some insight from reading these old threads:

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... rice+dream

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... rice+dream

The bottom line is that everyone has their own personal "threshold" for gluten ingestion, before a reaction with clinical symptoms will be triggered. IOW, as long as you keep your total daily intake below that level, you will probably be OK, and if you exceed it, you will probably react. It doesn't matter if you get the gluten from one item, or dozens, it's the total amount that matters.

For years, Europe has used the gluten free definition of the Codex Alimentarius, (a Geneva-based international group), but the United States has not had a practical, legal definition of gluten free. Apparently, the FDA has now adopted the gluten free standards of the Codex Alimentarius, and the legal threshold for a claim of gluten free in this country is now 20 parts per million. (The Codex Alimentarius standard is 20 mg per 100 g, which is the same as 20 ppm). However, for decades, the Codex "official safe level", was 200 mg per 100g, (which is 200 ppm). A few years ago, Dr. Fasano did some research on that, (the references are probably in one of the links above - probably the first one), and found that many celiaces react, and/or suffer small intestinal damage at those levels. Because of that research, the Codex group was finally persuaded to lower their "approved" level to the current number, (20 ppm). Unfortunately, since gluten sensitivity is a continuous spectrum, and varies by the individual, there are a few people who react even at the 20 ppm level. IOW, everyone has their own unique threshold, and the current "official" level is not safe for everyone, regardless of what some group of experts in Geneva claims.

The bottom line is that the more items that you ingest that you "know" are probably closer to that 20 ppm level, than zero, the easier it is for you to react to accidental cross-contamination, because you are already using up a large percentage of your daily dietary "cushion", (for want of a better word). Obviously, someone who is always crowding her or his daily limit, is much more likely to run into problems with cross-contamination, or whatever, than someone who always cooks from scratch, and has a daily average accrued gluten level approaching zero. IOW, you have to personally decide if you want to take the risk, or if you would rather keep your risks at a minimum. At least that's the way I see it.

I haven't used rice dream since I discovered that it contains traces of gluten, because I have no idea how sensitive I really am. My problem is that I apparently have to accrue damage, before I react, so that by the time I react, I may have already allowed gluten to do a lot of damage to my body. I already have serious peripheral neuropathy, from past damage - I simply don't believe that I can afford to risk more, so I don't.

Tex

mbeezie · Post by **mbeezie** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:47 pm

I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard (at camp) that Rice Dream was reformulated without the barley - they finally realized that they were losing business by adding barley and gluten intolerants were avoiding it. I suppose you could call the company if you are interested to see if that is true.

Do we really know if any product that is labeled gluten free is truly gluten free, or just meets the govermnemt labeling standard?? And when is says "made in the same facility that process wheat etc . . . " we really don't know what that means either. It's all a gamble, isn't it?

Mary Beth

Gloria · Post by **Gloria** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:19 pm

Yes, it is all a gamble. We're just trying to minimize the risk as much as possible. I guess some risks are greater than others. For example, most sunflower butter claims that it's made in a facility that uses strict standards to separate the manufacturing from tree nuts and peanuts. But then it states that the sunflower butter is made on equipment that also processed soy.

I still eat it, but am taking a gamble that my batch could have immediately followed a soy run.

I haven't noticed an appreciable improvement after giving up any specific food in the past year. I stopped drinking the Rice Dream because of the gluten, but can't honestly say if it's made any difference. It sure tasted better than Almond Dream and it was a lot cheaper. But I won't be going back to it unless I get all of my symptoms resolved, and even then I'd have to think about it. My homemade rice milk tastes pretty good (to me) and certainly is a lot cheaper.

Courtney,
DH just checked some boxes of Rice Dream that I still have and he says they don't have carrageenan. Maybe they've changed the formula and added that.

Gloria

no-more-muffins · Post by **no-more-muffins** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:19 pm

Gloria, when you get back from your trip (or if you see this before you go) I'd love to get your rice milk recipe. I tried making it once and it was SO nasty. I hate to have to pay 2 bucks or more for a quart though, and the almond milk is even more pricey. I'd also like to hear how you can it. (Are we talking bottling or really canning in a can? I have a lot of empty Mason jars that I'd love to put something in.)

Oh, and I am interested in trying your ghee recipe as well and learning more about ghee. (Like what you put it on. Do you put it on popcorn?)

JLH · Post by **JLH** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:22 pm

Hmmm. I just looked and Rice Dream is what I have in my cupboard. I have been dairy free since HS or college and that is a darn lot of years. I bought some Rice Dream to try but I was afraid to try it, now even more so.

I think at the time, the doc couldn't find anything else wrong and decided that I was lactose intolerant. I don't remember for certain, though.......

mbeezie · Post by **mbeezie** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:46 pm

I checked their website and they still use the barley enzyme and state that there is potential for there to be <0.002% barley protein in the product. The label states the product is gluten free. Also, there is no carrageenan, which is in almond milk, and is a known to cause GI inflammation. I don't know what is in other brands of rice milk.

Mary Beth

Post by **tex** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:12 pm

0.002% is 20 parts per million, or 20 mg per 100 grams, which is the maximum amount allowed by the Codex standard, for "Gluten-Free" labeling. It's actually "Low-Gluten", rather than gluten-free, but the Codex standard allows manufacturers to call anything under that maximum, "gluten-free.

Tex

Gloria · Post by **Gloria** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:32 pm

NMM,

You can find my rice milk recipe here: http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 2874#52874

I canned the rice milk in 1/2 pint jars. I processed them at about 5 lbs. pressure for 10 minutes right after I made it while it was still hot. The milk didn't separate like it did when I tried to make yogurt. It was pretty easy to can. I haven't had any to drink yet, so I'll let you know how it was after my trip.

Rice Dream is available in small 8 oz. boxes, but Almond Dream is not. I have been really concerned about how I would eat breakfast on the road because I can't eat eggs. Canning the milk in jars was my solution.

It's getting late, so I'll respond to your Ghee question tomorrow.

Gloria

kscolorado · Post by **kscolorado** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:50 am

Also wanted to comment that I spend time on the celiac forum as well. The membership is huge! You will find daily someone reacting to this food and that food. Most of the time, the food questioned is totally gluten free and they haven't figured out all of their intolerances yet. Some will tell you to stay away from distilled vinegar (in the usa its always corn or apples or they will note), distilled alcohol ect. Each celiac is different on their level of sensitivity. I bet quite a few are fine with rice dream but don't want to admit it on that forum. Don't get me wrong, I love the forum and you learn a lot and I've made friends there as well but you will find misinformation as well. The moderators try very hard to quickly rectify but with that huge membership its a hard task to catch them all. For instance a couple days ago a relatively new member said to another new member that she couldn't have celiac if her B-12 was normal...yikes! An older member jumped in but she still held her ground. Funny how people can be.

Gas Bag · Post by **Gas Bag** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:56 am

Off topic a bit, but I spent time with the Celiac's as well, before my diagnosis, and it was somebody on there that clued me in about MC. Everything just fell into place in my brain about what was going on, my regular Doc certainly was clueless and no help whatsoever! Atleast I found a GI that was on his toes, atleast about finding out/verifying what was wrong.

Gloria · Post by **Gloria** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:51 am

I thought a lot about my procedure for canning rice milk after I posted it. I've been researching in vain to see if I could find instructions on how to can it. Although it's possible, it may not be advisable. I found this information on a highly respected website, http://www.uga.edu/nchfp

Not all types of homemade soups can be successfully preserved for long-term storage; we cannot offer you options for canning soups thickened with flours or cornstarches, or containing rice, pasta or cream.

emphasis is mine.

Everything I've read says to always use approved instructions for canning. I've canned many items over the years, including meat and haven't had any problems. But low-acid foods present a different problem and I'd guess that rice is a low-acid food. Since I can't find any instructions for canning rice milk, I'm not going to use what I canned.

I always have a backup plan, however. I'm going to put my refrigerated rice milk in 8 oz. rubbermaid drink containers. I'll bring a package of Almond Dream milk to replace the rice milk in the containers.

I need to get packing - we're leaving at 6 a.m. tomorrow morning.

Gloria

mbeezie · Post by **mbeezie** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:55 pm

Just a thought, but would freezing be any better than canning? What would it do to the quality?

Mary Beth