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I think I am finally starting to put pieces of the puzzle together. At least I am noticing reactions to certain foods.
After feeling bad for a few days I looked through my food diary and saw that I had eaten gf oats. My oat reaction was very similar to my gluten reaction, just not quite as bad. I looked back over several months and noticed that my symptoms ususally got worse when I ate oats.
So, here are my questions about oats:
How many people around here are sensitive to oats?
Is oat sensitivity usually associated with true celiac? I saw something about people who have DQ8 genes and how they seem to tolerate oats better than DQ2s. (I don't know what my genes are but isn't DQ2 a celiac gene?)
Is this something that I will probably have to avoid forever or as things heal will I be able to eat them? I didn't get D from oats, but I did get anxiety and nausea and some headaches and fatigue.
Sensitive to oats
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At least several of us are sensitive to the avenin in oats. I'm one of them, and as Gloria mentioned, I did an oat challenge about a year and a half ago, to verify it. Oats will clean me out, a few hours after I eat it, (and that's pure oats, not contaminated with wheat gluten).no-more-muffins wrote:So, here are my questions about oats:
How many people around here are sensitive to oats?
Is oat sensitivity usually associated with true celiac? I saw something about people who have DQ8 genes and how they seem to tolerate oats better than DQ2s. (I don't know what my genes are but isn't DQ2 a celiac gene?)
Is this something that I will probably have to avoid forever or as things heal will I be able to eat them? I didn't get D from oats, but I did get anxiety and nausea and some headaches and fatigue.
I believe that it's connected with gluten sensitivity, but I don't see any reason why it would be specifically limited to celiacs, (though I'm certainly not sure that it can't be limited to celiacs, or those with the DQ2 gene). Yes, DQ2 is the most common celiac gene, and I do have a DQ2 gene, and it's certainly possibly that I might be a celiac, since I was never tested for the disease.
Gloria does not have the DQ2 gene, and is almost surely not a celiac, (though it wouldn't be impossible for her to be a celiac, just extremely unlikely). Maybe the others here who are sensitive to oats will respond to this thread, and we can compare their gene status, and/or celiac status.
Your last question is a tough one, and the answer may be a matter of perspective, (or degree). You know, for many, many years, doctors claimed that kids who had celiac disease would outgrow it, and so many of them started eating gluten again, as they got older, and most of them seemed to tolerate it OK. I think I read somewhere, though, that most of them eventually suffer villus atrophy, and after the damage reaches a sufficient level, they start showing clinical symptoms, again. Some show intestinal damage, but don't show clinical symptoms. Probably what happens, is that if the gut is allowed to completely heal, it takes a while for enough damage to accumulate to start creating problems, but eventually, the problem can no longer be ignored.
I think that's why so many "experts" think that most celiacs can safely eat oats. They simply don't allow enough time for the damage to accumulate, before they pronounce the patient "home free". Then, a few more months down the road, (after the patient eats enough oats), the symptoms start showing up. Avenin is a much less potent allergen than gluten, and there is much less of it in oats, than there is gluten in wheat. IOW a patient has to eat much more oats, (compared with wheat), before they will get enough of the offending prolamin protein, to trigger a reaction.
There's always the possibility that you're not actually intolerant of oats, and they're just an irritant to your digestive system, which means that after your gut finishes healing, you might be able to handle them just fine. (That's assuming that you are truly not gluten sensitive, as per your test results).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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MaggieRedwings
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Oats are very different from the other prolamin-containing grains that cause problems for anyone who is gluten-sensitive. Oats contain the highest amount of soluble fiber, of any of the grains. They also contain a lot of insoluble fiber, so the fiber content might be a problem for many of us, if we eat significant amounts of oats.
Oat is the only cereal containing a globulin, or legume-like protein, avenalin, as the major, (80%), storage protein. Globulins are characterized by water solubility, and because of that legume-like quality, oats may be turned into milk, (similar to soy milk), but cannot be used to make bread. The offending proteins found in wheat, rye, and barley, are prolamines, (gluten, secalin, and hordein, respectively), and in these grains, they constitute the major protein source. In the case of oats, the prolamine is the minor protein, and it's known as avenin. Because the avenin fraction is so low, one must eat a lot more oats, in order to trigger a reaction, compared with wheat, rye, or barley.
Interestingly, because of the presence of the avenalin fraction of oat protein, the quality of oat protein is nearly equivalent to soy protein. I can't help but wonder if that might have other implications.
Tex
Oat is the only cereal containing a globulin, or legume-like protein, avenalin, as the major, (80%), storage protein. Globulins are characterized by water solubility, and because of that legume-like quality, oats may be turned into milk, (similar to soy milk), but cannot be used to make bread. The offending proteins found in wheat, rye, and barley, are prolamines, (gluten, secalin, and hordein, respectively), and in these grains, they constitute the major protein source. In the case of oats, the prolamine is the minor protein, and it's known as avenin. Because the avenin fraction is so low, one must eat a lot more oats, in order to trigger a reaction, compared with wheat, rye, or barley.
Interestingly, because of the presence of the avenalin fraction of oat protein, the quality of oat protein is nearly equivalent to soy protein. I can't help but wonder if that might have other implications.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I'm gluten intolerant and, like Tex, have tried an oats challenge with poor results. I was able to eat the oats for a few days, which mistakenly made me think that they were ok. In fact, I was so happy to be able to eat oatmeal for breakfast that I definitely pigged out. But...I paid the price. About 3 days after first reintroducing oats, I started to experience all the familiar symptoms of being glutened, which for me also includes bleeding because I have ulcerative colitis. Upon first experiencing these symptoms, I removed the oats and it took about 10-14 days for gut to heal and my symptoms to go away.
My experience seems to support what Tex thinks--that when the intestinal damage reaches a tipping point then symptoms return. Before I accepted that I simply cannot eat gluten or oats, I used to 'test' these foods and I'd be able to eat them w/out problem for a few days, but then suddenly the effects would hit me like a ton of bricks. I've heard one doctor say food intolerances can be viewed in terms of a glass full of liquid--to a point our bodies can handle the intolerances with little to no symptom (ie. as the glass fills up). However, once the glass is full and begins to spill over, the intestinal damage brought on by the offending food(s) is simply too great for our systems to cope with and we suffer the consequences.
It's very frustrating because I know in the past I was always so happy to think momentarily that I could once again eat foods on my forbidden list, but it was a cruel trick. With time, the cumulative damage caused my symptoms to return and I finally learned my lesson (I think). Sadly, I still miss oats and other foods, but the consequences to my health are just too great and w/out these foods in my diet I'm in much better shape and my colitis remains in remission. All in all, I consider myself fortunate in that I can control my disease through diet and so that's the positive I choose to focus on.
My experience seems to support what Tex thinks--that when the intestinal damage reaches a tipping point then symptoms return. Before I accepted that I simply cannot eat gluten or oats, I used to 'test' these foods and I'd be able to eat them w/out problem for a few days, but then suddenly the effects would hit me like a ton of bricks. I've heard one doctor say food intolerances can be viewed in terms of a glass full of liquid--to a point our bodies can handle the intolerances with little to no symptom (ie. as the glass fills up). However, once the glass is full and begins to spill over, the intestinal damage brought on by the offending food(s) is simply too great for our systems to cope with and we suffer the consequences.
It's very frustrating because I know in the past I was always so happy to think momentarily that I could once again eat foods on my forbidden list, but it was a cruel trick. With time, the cumulative damage caused my symptoms to return and I finally learned my lesson (I think). Sadly, I still miss oats and other foods, but the consequences to my health are just too great and w/out these foods in my diet I'm in much better shape and my colitis remains in remission. All in all, I consider myself fortunate in that I can control my disease through diet and so that's the positive I choose to focus on.
Dear NMM,
I must be one of the stranger ones on the board. I can eat all gluten products with no problem (bread, pasta, etc), but let there be oats and I have a flare. I can't even eat Cherrios, which was one of my favorite cereals.
Jan
I must be one of the stranger ones on the board. I can eat all gluten products with no problem (bread, pasta, etc), but let there be oats and I have a flare. I can't even eat Cherrios, which was one of my favorite cereals.
Jan
While you are proclaiming peace with your lips, be careful to have it even more fully in your heart. - Saint Francis of Assisi