Flu vaccine from Dr. Mercola YMMV

[JLH]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... posed.aspx

Disclaimer: Talk with your doctor.

[barbaranoela]

well too late --- we already had our flu shot~~~~

Barbara

[Gas Bag]

Excellent article/information. I agree whole heartedly. I never get flu shots and never get the flu and neither does my husband.

I think flu shots along with alot of other unnecessary drugs are just a scam by Big Pharma* to make money off of a paranoid public.

Ever notice, of course you do! all the drug ads on TV, good lord, we have them pushing pills at us constantly.

Deb

* I love that name Tex, I don't know if you coined it or not, but never heard them referred to as that until I came here. But it makes them sound like the evil bunch that they are!

[tex]

Deb,

As far as I'm aware, greengirl78 was the first to use that descriptive label for the pharmaceutical companies on this board, but I have to admit that I'm kind of fond of the term, also.

Tex

[Gas Bag]

Deb,

As far as I'm aware, greengirl78 was the first to use that descriptive label for the pharmaceutical companies on this board, but I have to admit that I'm kind of fond of the term, also.

Tex

Of course I have to admit we are much better off than we were in the dark ages in regard to the advances of medicine, but I firmly believe that dollar signs are the prime motivation for Big Pharma in many, many, I said many, areas. Boy I better take a chil pill.. I can really get going a big rant about this.

Deb

[Gloria]

The site seems to assume that most people get the flu vaccine to prevent death. A large part of their argument is that the vaccine doesn't reduce deaths. However, I think most get it to prevent the symptoms and aren't as concerned that it will cause death.

Since pneumonia is the most likely cause of death after having the flu, those who are concerned about dying would be better served getting a pneumonia vaccine, IMHO.

I got the pneumonia vaccine last year and I don't think I'll be getting either flu vaccine this year. I plan on increasing my vitamin D supplement instead.

I was doing genealogy research last night and found a death certificate for a distant cousin who died at age 5 in November 1918. The cause of death given was influenza; pneumonia was listed as a contributary. This is what Wikipedia says about that flu:

The 1918 flu pandemic (commonly referred to as the Spanish Flu) was an influenza pandemic that spread to nearly every part of the world. It was caused by an unusually virulent and deadly influenza A virus strain of subtype H1N1. Historical and epidemiological data are inadequate to identify the geographic origin of the virus.Most of its victims were healthy young adults, in contrast to most influenza outbreaks which predominantly affect juvenile, elderly, or otherwise weakened patients. The flu pandemic has also been implicated in the sudden outbreak of encephalitis lethargica in the 1920s.

The pandemic lasted from March 1918 to June 1920,spreading even to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands. It is estimated that anywhere from 50 to 100 million people were killed worldwide. An estimated 500 million people, one third of the world's population (approximately 1.6 billion at the time), became infected.

I guess I just scared everyone with that quote and they'll be more apt to get the vaccine.

Gloria

[tex]

Gloria,

FWIW, I agree with you about Dr. Mercola's viewpoint in that article. The problem with the statistics usually quoted, is that the fatality numbers don't distinguish between vaccinees, and those who are not vaccinated, so they're somewhat like comparing apples and oranges. Logic would suggest that those not vaccinated, should have the greatest risk of fatality, however, though that's not necessary a given.

Does the pneumonia vaccine have a high risk of a "mild case" reaction, the way that the flu vaccine does? I've never even considered that option, and I can see how it might offer some advantages, especially for someone with chronic respiratory issues. How long is the inoculation usually effective?

Tex

[Rosie]

Well, I have to say that I'm a believer in the flu shots. I get them every year, and the only times I've come down with the flu have been when the type circulating wasn't the type in the vaccine. My husband was resistant to getting a shot until several years in a row when he got sick and I didn't. The flu bug takes a good 3 weeks to recover from, and that's if you don't pick up a nasty bronchitis.

I took a look at the web site and was really put off by their "scare tactics". It's cleverly done, citing scientific references that appear to support their claim that the flu shot is at best worthless, and at worst, harmful to your health. I read the abstracts of the scientific articles they quote, and found many of the interpretations to be misleading.

Let me give one example. Here is a quote from the article:

A study published in the October 2008 issue of the Archives of Pediatric & Adolescent Medicine found that vaccinating young children against the flu had no impact on flu-related hospitalizations or doctor visits during two recent flu seasons.

I clicked on the link to read the abstract of the article, something few people would probably do, and here is what it actually said:

CONCLUSION: In 2 seasons with suboptimal antigenic match between vaccines and circulating strains, we could not demonstrate VE in preventing influenza-related inpatient/ED or outpatient visits in children younger than 5 years. Further study is needed during years with good vaccine match.

So I don't find it suprising that very little difference was seen between non-vaccinated and vaccinated kids, when the vaccine wasn't even to the circulating strains. My suprise was that this article was even accepted for publication in the first place!

I could go on with other examples, but you can see what I mean.

There are legitimate concerns about flu vaccination, but web sites like this one do a disservice. Obviously in deciding whether to get a flu shot you weigh risk and benefit.

1. Is the vaccine effective against the current strains in circulation?
2. How strong is your immune system? I know that there are ways to improve your natural immunity with things like Vit. D. My mother in all the years I've known her, (92 years old) has NEVER had a flu bug, cold, or stomach flu bug. I wish that I'd inherited her immune system!
3. How severe are the flu strains?
4. What is your risk of exposure?
5. Have you had bad reactions to flu or other shots in the past? What do you perceive as the risks?
6. How inconvenient would getting sick for 2 weeks be?

I weighed all this and came down on the side of getting a flu shot.

Rosie

[Gloria]

Rosie,
I think you just reinforced my postulate that most people don't take the flu shot because they fear they will die from getting the flu, but rather because they don't want to deal with the symptoms. There's nothing wrong with taking it for that reason, but the article's premise is that it doesn't reduce deaths.


Tex,
According to this website: http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Pneumoc ... accine.htm

A single dose of 23 polyvalent vaccine, with no repeat vaccination, is normally all that is required for individuals over the age of 5 with the following exceptions:.

•Patients with no spleen
•Patients with splenic dysfunction
•Patients with renal disease including nephrotic syndrome

There is a link on the page to another article which questions the efficacy of the pneumonia and the flu vaccines:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... l?ITO=1490

I got the pneumonia vaccine because I had gotten pneumonia twice; the most recent was double pneumonia. Both times I could have gone to the hospital, but I chose not to. DH also got the vaccine because he's a diabetic, though he's never had pneumonia. I recall that my doctor was concerned that my insurance company might not pay for it, so he mentally justified it with my medical history. Apparently it's not a cheap vaccine, unlike the flu vaccine.

According to the article, it doesn't appear that there are any side effects.

Gloria[spoiler][/spoiler]

[tex]

Rosie,

You have to recognize that Dr. Mercola has made a career out of sensationalizing contrary opinions about accepted practices. He has a lot of good points in some of his articles, however, (no question about that), but there's also no question that he errs on the sensational side, and he's a past master at taking a truth, (or a half-truth), and developing a no-holds-barred campaign from it. Given a choice, it appears that he would rather be sensational, than factual. IOW, in a nutshell, he is not a source, for someone interesting in getting a balanced viewpoint. I often read his articles, and come away with a lot of good insight, but I have to consume a lot more salt, than normal, when digesting his articles. IMO opinion, he has simply discovered that the old newspaper editor's strategy works - sensationalism sells.

Tex

P. S. Does your mother get the flu shot?

[tex]

Gloria,

Thanks for the info.

Tex

[tex]

Remember that the potential effectiveness of a flu vaccine is dependent on the ASSUMPTION, made nearly a year in advance, that Asia’s viral strains will be the ones hitting the U.S. When they guess wrong, the vaccine is worthless from the very start.

But does that mean they withdraw the flu vaccine when they discover it contains the wrong strains? NO! They just keep giving it out anyway.

He has a point there, and I suppose that's the part that concerns me the most. That suggests that the primary goal of the project is to show a profit, whether the product is useful, or not. That's not a very professional attitude. Some might even view that as morally corrupt behavior.

Tex

[mbeezie]

I had a serious flu vaccine reaction and I know for a fact that my doctors didn't report the adverse reaction to the CDC. This wasn't because they didn't want to, but because they didn't know what was wrong with me (you must check a diagnosis box). This makes me wonder how many others like me had bad reactions that haven't been recorded. Surely I am not the only one. IMHO the vaccine is probably not as safe as we'd like to think. The disease that was triggered by my vaccine reaction didn't fully blossom for 18 months - how on earth could accurate statstics be kept if others experienced the same thing.

I have been reading about vaccine adjuvants (vaccine additive that stimulates the immune system). Adjuvants in the flu vaccine haven't been added in the US yet. Many people are speaking out against the additive and are concerned about it's safety.

Since I am no longer a candidate for the flu vaccine, I am relying on added vitmain D. I'm waiting to get my test results back to see what my level is. Might be a good idea for everyone to know there level as flu season approaches.

Mary Beth

[Rosie]

Tex, my mother has had a great fear of doctors her entire life, and has never gotten a flu shot, although now that she's in assisted living, they may vaccinate everyone. She has always maintained that her strong resistance to infections is because she chewed a lot of beeswax when a kid. Her other big thing was garlic and apple cider vinegar. Her body is strong as a horse, but unfortunately her mind hasn't kept up......

Immunizations are one of the big successes of modern medicine, although not entirely trouble-free. I remember being a "Polio Pioneer" and even getting a card for that when I was a kid. And I remember how fearful parents were during the summer, especially about swimming. The Polio vaccine was hailed and Jonas Salk was a big hero. But there was also a bad batch of vaccine that infected some kids. So everything comes with a price...... Also, back then they used cultured monkey cells to grow the virus, and they found out later that some of these cultured cells contained Simian Virus 40, that can infect human cells, but not spread. Fortunately it didn't seem to cause any problems, and current vaccines are clean. But of course they didn't know back then. And polio was so common and such a threat that even a poorly tested vaccine was eagerly used.


I got my shot last week and never even had a slightly sore arm. However, DH had a sore arm, shoulder and upper back for a day, so we are all different. For me the small perceived risk of a flu shot is well worth not being sick and miserable with the flu for several weeks. But I realize that not everyone feels this way. And we all have good reason to be wary of the medical profession and not trust everything we are told.

Rosie

[tex]

She has always maintained that her strong resistance to infections is because she chewed a lot of beeswax when a kid. Her other big thing was garlic and apple cider vinegar.

Maybe she's right. There have been a lot of claims made about the effectiveness of honey and/or beeswax, for enhancing immune systems, and garlic and apple cider vinegar are also mentioned in a lot of home remedies. I've known a few beekeepers who were as strong as a horse, and as tough as a boot, even though they were as old as the hills.

I remember the polio concerns. One of my classmates had it, in the small school that I attended. I never had the vaccination. I was already well into my teens, when the first vaccine became available. I sometimes wonder if I might have had an asymptomatic case of it, when I was younger, since I've had issues with a stiff neck, from time to time, for most of my life.

Tex