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My first post in a while
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Sorry to hear all that you've been experiencing.
I just got an inexpensive light box to help my depression. I haven't used it, yet. DD#1 got one first and says it helps but she is still taking Zoloft. UGH. She says the people on the train aren't nearly as obnoxious if she uses her light box.
Send in your EnteroLab sample for a start. I think you have to wait until next week, though.
I'm sure Tex will be here to answer your questions.
I just got an inexpensive light box to help my depression. I haven't used it, yet. DD#1 got one first and says it helps but she is still taking Zoloft. UGH. She says the people on the train aren't nearly as obnoxious if she uses her light box.
Send in your EnteroLab sample for a start. I think you have to wait until next week, though.
I'm sure Tex will be here to answer your questions.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a doctor and don't play one on TV.
LDN July 18, 2014
Joan
LDN July 18, 2014
Joan
Dear Wayne,
I think you are sooooo right about that. Do not let people convince you that depression causes the physical symptoms. It may be true, but it is much more likely to be the other way around. With you through thick and thin. Keep smiling. All best, AntI believe helping my GI problems would greatly help my depression.
Wayne,
Sorry to hear that things haven't been going well. I agree that controlling your MC symptoms will probably eliminate the depression. If you feel the need for an antidepressant in the interim, though, you shouldn't give up on them, just because the first one you tried didn't work. They all work differently, and the best one for any individual usually has to be determined by trial and error. Didn't you take Wellbutrin a year or so ago? How did that work for you? Wellbutrin has a reputation for causing minimal side effects, as I recall. There are a lot of options, and somewhere out there, exists a product that will probably do what you want, without causing other problems.
Regarding the blood/diet theory: There doesn't seem to be a medically sound basis for that theory, even though many people seem to believe that it makes a difference, and there are some serious "glitches" in the theory upon which it is based. The red cell agglutination, for example, that he mentions, cannot happen, without life-threatening consequences. I have type "O" blood, also. If our blood was undergoing agglutination, we wouldn't be sitting here exchanging posts on this discussion board - we would probably be in the ER, (or an ICU). This article explains it quite well:
http://www.earthsave.org/news/bloodtyp.htm
This statement, is obviously incorrect and irrelevant:
In strict scientific definition, only wheat contains the protein known as gluten. The other grains contain a similar prolamine protein, but they all have unique names, (hordein in barley, secalin in rye, avenin in oats, zein in corn, oryzenin in rice, etc.). Therefore, gluten intolerance, (or gluten allergy), is interchangeable with wheat allergy, (and also unique to wheat sensitivity). Gluten actually contains the primary lectin in wheat, that causes problems for people who are sensitive to wheat, and the treatment for either gluten sensitivity, or wheat lectin sensitivity, is the same. Therefore, any distinction is moot - totally irrelevant.
It probably won't hurt you to try altering your diet to reflect the blood/diet theory, but a lot of the restrictions recommended by the diet are unnecessary for treating MC. It is interesting to note, however, that the type "O" diet is a hunter-gatherer diet, which is exactly what we find to work the best for treating MC. It involves cutting out all grains, (including soy beans and all other beans), and all dairy products. That works for treating MC, for most of us, so long as you cut out gluten, dairy, and soy, 100%.
In view of that, I have to say that even though the medical community finds the blood/diet theory to be invalid, the overall concept does appear to have some merit. IOW, the theory might have a few warts, but all in all, it certainly seems to apply to people with type "O" blood, who also have certain genes that predispose them to gluten sensitivity, and/or MC.
Good luck with this.
Tex
Sorry to hear that things haven't been going well. I agree that controlling your MC symptoms will probably eliminate the depression. If you feel the need for an antidepressant in the interim, though, you shouldn't give up on them, just because the first one you tried didn't work. They all work differently, and the best one for any individual usually has to be determined by trial and error. Didn't you take Wellbutrin a year or so ago? How did that work for you? Wellbutrin has a reputation for causing minimal side effects, as I recall. There are a lot of options, and somewhere out there, exists a product that will probably do what you want, without causing other problems.
Regarding the blood/diet theory: There doesn't seem to be a medically sound basis for that theory, even though many people seem to believe that it makes a difference, and there are some serious "glitches" in the theory upon which it is based. The red cell agglutination, for example, that he mentions, cannot happen, without life-threatening consequences. I have type "O" blood, also. If our blood was undergoing agglutination, we wouldn't be sitting here exchanging posts on this discussion board - we would probably be in the ER, (or an ICU). This article explains it quite well:
http://www.earthsave.org/news/bloodtyp.htm
This statement, is obviously incorrect and irrelevant:
In fact, they cannot easily be confused. An allergy results in an immediate, histamine-based reaction, with upper-respiratory and topical symptoms. If severe, it results in anaphylaxis. An intolerance results in delayed GI symptoms. Clearly, he doesn't understand the difference between allergy and intolerance, because the differences in symptoms are so obvious, as to be virtually impossible to confuse.Gluten allergy, wheat allergy and wheat lectin intolerance can easily be confused.
In strict scientific definition, only wheat contains the protein known as gluten. The other grains contain a similar prolamine protein, but they all have unique names, (hordein in barley, secalin in rye, avenin in oats, zein in corn, oryzenin in rice, etc.). Therefore, gluten intolerance, (or gluten allergy), is interchangeable with wheat allergy, (and also unique to wheat sensitivity). Gluten actually contains the primary lectin in wheat, that causes problems for people who are sensitive to wheat, and the treatment for either gluten sensitivity, or wheat lectin sensitivity, is the same. Therefore, any distinction is moot - totally irrelevant.
It probably won't hurt you to try altering your diet to reflect the blood/diet theory, but a lot of the restrictions recommended by the diet are unnecessary for treating MC. It is interesting to note, however, that the type "O" diet is a hunter-gatherer diet, which is exactly what we find to work the best for treating MC. It involves cutting out all grains, (including soy beans and all other beans), and all dairy products. That works for treating MC, for most of us, so long as you cut out gluten, dairy, and soy, 100%.
In view of that, I have to say that even though the medical community finds the blood/diet theory to be invalid, the overall concept does appear to have some merit. IOW, the theory might have a few warts, but all in all, it certainly seems to apply to people with type "O" blood, who also have certain genes that predispose them to gluten sensitivity, and/or MC.
Good luck with this.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Dear Wayne,
I also have suffered from depression for years. It evidently runs in my family. I was put on Cymbalta after I hurt my back. Supposedly it was to help with the depression and pain. Well, it sure didn't and I got off it. In fact, I was off anti-depressants for quite a while. After I lost my Mom 2 years ago I realized I wasn't handling this loss well at all. I finally asked my GP for something. He put me on Pristiq. It took about a week for it to kick in and I don't regret making this choice. As a side note, the mfg. offers a discount card where they pay 50% of whatever you have to pay for as long as you are on it.
As far as diet goes, I also am O positive blood type. I have been able to maintain remission following the paleo diet. As far as veggies go, I eat about anything. I have found that cucumbers irritate me so I don't eat them very often (even though I love them).
Good luck in the next stage of your journey.
Jan
I also have suffered from depression for years. It evidently runs in my family. I was put on Cymbalta after I hurt my back. Supposedly it was to help with the depression and pain. Well, it sure didn't and I got off it. In fact, I was off anti-depressants for quite a while. After I lost my Mom 2 years ago I realized I wasn't handling this loss well at all. I finally asked my GP for something. He put me on Pristiq. It took about a week for it to kick in and I don't regret making this choice. As a side note, the mfg. offers a discount card where they pay 50% of whatever you have to pay for as long as you are on it.
As far as diet goes, I also am O positive blood type. I have been able to maintain remission following the paleo diet. As far as veggies go, I eat about anything. I have found that cucumbers irritate me so I don't eat them very often (even though I love them).
Good luck in the next stage of your journey.
Jan
While you are proclaiming peace with your lips, be careful to have it even more fully in your heart. - Saint Francis of Assisi
Wayne,
Sorry, I apparently got you mixed up with someone else, on the Wellbutrin usage.
While I most definitely agree that lectins can prolong an MC reaction, (and trigger one in the first place, for that matter), the effect of lectins is that of a toxin, not necessarily as a trigger for an autoimmune reaction. Lectins are toxic, by definition, (plants produce them to prevent certain organisms from feeding on them). The proteins that produce autoimmune reactions, (directly), are not toxins - they are simply proteins that we cannot properly digest, and something in their composition, triggers an autoimmune response from our immune system.
That said, there is a lot about MC that is unknown, and unexplained. Polly and I have long held that there is a toxic agent involved in the initiation and propagation of the inflammation that is described as the disease named microscopic colitis. Dr. Fine has also expressed this opinion. It's not impossible that lectins could be the/a qualifying toxic agent. IOW, they might indirectly trigger an autoimmune response, due to the chronic inflammation that they cause on the mucosal surface. Be aware that I'm just expressing my opinion here, none of this has been verified, (nor disproved), by scientific research.
If you want to determine whether or not you're actually sensitive to gluten, it's very easy to do. Simply order a test kit from Enterolab, and send in a sample to be tested for gliadin antibodies. That test is very specific, for antibodies to the alpha gliadin in wheat gluten, (only). The test will not detect antibodies to barley, rye, oats, etc., for example, or antibodies to anything else. Those tests are virtually 100% accurate, and no other test in the industry, comes even close, for sensitivity and accuracy. My point is, you can avoid all the lectins you want, but if you are gluten-sensitive, and you do not cut gluten out of your diet, then avoiding all those lectins is not going to provide any benefits to you.
The reason for that is related to an apparent hierarchy of immune responses, that dictates the order in which the immune system responds to "allergens". IOW, gluten is higher up the hierarchy ladder than lectins, meaning that if you are sensitive to gluten, then all gluten issues will have to be resolved before the immune system will even pay any attention to a lower hierarchy item, such as lectins. Again, this is only my opinion, but so far, the accumulated experience of the members of this board, has not provided any evidence to the contrary. If you can prove otherwise, by your own experiences, then we would be forever indebted to you for clarifying the issue, and I'm not trying to be facetious, because virtually nothing is chiseled in stone, when it comes to microscopic colitis. We're all students here, trying to learn all we can about the disease, and we have a loooooooong way to go, so unlike the GI docs, we have to keep an open mind, if we intend to further our knowledge.
Tex
Sorry, I apparently got you mixed up with someone else, on the Wellbutrin usage.
Definitely! Many of us avoid the most troublesome sources of lectins, (legumes, and wheat, of course). I think you'll find, though, that the lectin problem is not really a separate issue, but part of a spectrum of intolerances that are due to a gene, (or genes), that is/are triggered when MC is initially triggered, (in which casein intolerance also is involved). You're correct - the mannose has the capacity to bind to many/most of the anchor sites on lectins, thus preventing bacteria, or anything else, from binding to them, so that they can be purged from the system.Wayne wrote:If bacteria in the intestines (possibly) use lectins to make it easier for them to interact with the intestinal wall, maybe initiating an immune response, then might it not be possible one's diet (lectins) would be something to look at? Forget about the blood types, gluten, etc. Could my problems be due to some interaction of lectins I consume and "something" in my body? Could D-mannose possibly "bind" with lectins, making them "less available" for bacteria, which might help with symptoms?
I understand what you're saying, but you are confusing wheat lectin sensitivity with sensitivity to more/all lectins. Wheat lectin sensitivity is not more inclusive, whereas, of course, senstivity to other/all lectins would be. Wheat lectin sensitivity is irrelevant, if gluten sensitivity is present, whereas, sensitivity to lectins other than wheat-based, would obviously not be irrelevant. Again, though, remember that many of us are sensitive to various lectins, (but only secondary to gluten sensitivity, (or wheat lectin sensitivity, if you prefer to think of it that way. The point is that not all of us who are gluten sensitive, are also sensitive to lectins, but conversely, to my knowledge, virtually everyone here who is sensitive to lectins, is also sensitive to wheat gluten.Wayne wrote:I'm not sure if it is totally irrelevant ... the distinction between "gluten sensitivity" and "wheat lectin sensitivity" is that the latter is more inclusive if the problems I have result from several lectins ... the one in gluten is just one lectin.
By the term "expert", if you are referring to your GI doc, the cumulative experience of the members of this board has clearly shown there is no logical way that mainstream GI doctors can be considered "experts" on microscopic colitis, and it's treatment. Anyone who has done much reading here, knows more about treating MC, than at least 90% of the GI docs out there.Wayne wrote:As far as gluten ... the "expert" said I have no allergy, intolerance, problem, etc., due to gluten (based on my negative biopsy). What is it then? Could it not be due to lectins in food ? If so, couldn't one categorize their condition as "lectin sensitivity"? This might be a better way to describe the condition than "gluten sensitivity" since other lectins, other than the one in gluten, may be as responsible for MC.
While I most definitely agree that lectins can prolong an MC reaction, (and trigger one in the first place, for that matter), the effect of lectins is that of a toxin, not necessarily as a trigger for an autoimmune reaction. Lectins are toxic, by definition, (plants produce them to prevent certain organisms from feeding on them). The proteins that produce autoimmune reactions, (directly), are not toxins - they are simply proteins that we cannot properly digest, and something in their composition, triggers an autoimmune response from our immune system.
That said, there is a lot about MC that is unknown, and unexplained. Polly and I have long held that there is a toxic agent involved in the initiation and propagation of the inflammation that is described as the disease named microscopic colitis. Dr. Fine has also expressed this opinion. It's not impossible that lectins could be the/a qualifying toxic agent. IOW, they might indirectly trigger an autoimmune response, due to the chronic inflammation that they cause on the mucosal surface. Be aware that I'm just expressing my opinion here, none of this has been verified, (nor disproved), by scientific research.
If you want to determine whether or not you're actually sensitive to gluten, it's very easy to do. Simply order a test kit from Enterolab, and send in a sample to be tested for gliadin antibodies. That test is very specific, for antibodies to the alpha gliadin in wheat gluten, (only). The test will not detect antibodies to barley, rye, oats, etc., for example, or antibodies to anything else. Those tests are virtually 100% accurate, and no other test in the industry, comes even close, for sensitivity and accuracy. My point is, you can avoid all the lectins you want, but if you are gluten-sensitive, and you do not cut gluten out of your diet, then avoiding all those lectins is not going to provide any benefits to you.
The reason for that is related to an apparent hierarchy of immune responses, that dictates the order in which the immune system responds to "allergens". IOW, gluten is higher up the hierarchy ladder than lectins, meaning that if you are sensitive to gluten, then all gluten issues will have to be resolved before the immune system will even pay any attention to a lower hierarchy item, such as lectins. Again, this is only my opinion, but so far, the accumulated experience of the members of this board, has not provided any evidence to the contrary. If you can prove otherwise, by your own experiences, then we would be forever indebted to you for clarifying the issue, and I'm not trying to be facetious, because virtually nothing is chiseled in stone, when it comes to microscopic colitis. We're all students here, trying to learn all we can about the disease, and we have a loooooooong way to go, so unlike the GI docs, we have to keep an open mind, if we intend to further our knowledge.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
DON'T GIVE UP
Wayne, that's the depression talking. Your PP family says send it in to EnteroLab, please. It can help.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a doctor and don't play one on TV.
LDN July 18, 2014
Joan
LDN July 18, 2014
Joan
Dear Wayne,
I just caught your post & decided to try to help one of our MC friends out.
It is very easy to pick out your depression in your post.
When we, older members of the board, received our diagnosis, I think I can speak for most, this HUGE overwhlemness took over our lives.
First it was how the hell do I get the D to stop. Or ones that dealt with cramping, nausea, vomiting, muscle & joint aches, headaches thought, there has to be something else going on, for me to be experiencing the D and all of these other symptoms.
Then came along the finding of 1 doctor with MC, who took it upon himself to try to get to the root of "what" also adds to the inflammation that is already going on from the MC. Of course, you know that is Dr. Fine. And the "what" that he found was gluten & the baboon butt causing D, casein.
None of us wanted to hear that on top of the D & other symptoms, now we had to modify our diet.
A diet where we use to be able to eat whatever we wanted. Could go out to breakfast, lunch & dinner, never having to question what we ordered or put into our mouths.
I know that you are a strong person because you have already proved that to us when you decided to work out, get buffed and lose weight.
Put your heart into sending that test kit !!! When you get the results, you will feel like a huge weight has been lifted from your shoulders. If you are gluten sensitive, dairy, etc, then you will be able to take the steps to start making yourself well.
And you will be surprised at what you CAN eat and won't have to question that.
We have walked in the same shoes, experienced the same greiving process, isolated ourselves from others who didn't have a clue what MC is all about . For a while, we quit going to family functions where we knew there would be a big spread of food, etc.....
I made up my mind that I was NOT going to let MC rule my life!! I know now what my intolerances are and I know to avoid them. Is there a learning curve, you betcha, but there isn't anyone here that will let you walk that journey alone.
And when you want to know what is safe to eat, you just yell DEEEEEEEEEEEEEE and I'll do my best to give you the knowledge that I have acquired after experimenting, tweaking, many, many recipes in the last 6 years.
You are not in this alone, so drop, it's a guy thing, and lean on us, so we can help!!!!
Love
Dee~~~~
I just caught your post & decided to try to help one of our MC friends out.
It is very easy to pick out your depression in your post.
When we, older members of the board, received our diagnosis, I think I can speak for most, this HUGE overwhlemness took over our lives.
First it was how the hell do I get the D to stop. Or ones that dealt with cramping, nausea, vomiting, muscle & joint aches, headaches thought, there has to be something else going on, for me to be experiencing the D and all of these other symptoms.
Then came along the finding of 1 doctor with MC, who took it upon himself to try to get to the root of "what" also adds to the inflammation that is already going on from the MC. Of course, you know that is Dr. Fine. And the "what" that he found was gluten & the baboon butt causing D, casein.
None of us wanted to hear that on top of the D & other symptoms, now we had to modify our diet.
A diet where we use to be able to eat whatever we wanted. Could go out to breakfast, lunch & dinner, never having to question what we ordered or put into our mouths.
I know that you are a strong person because you have already proved that to us when you decided to work out, get buffed and lose weight.
Put your heart into sending that test kit !!! When you get the results, you will feel like a huge weight has been lifted from your shoulders. If you are gluten sensitive, dairy, etc, then you will be able to take the steps to start making yourself well.
And you will be surprised at what you CAN eat and won't have to question that.
We have walked in the same shoes, experienced the same greiving process, isolated ourselves from others who didn't have a clue what MC is all about . For a while, we quit going to family functions where we knew there would be a big spread of food, etc.....
I made up my mind that I was NOT going to let MC rule my life!! I know now what my intolerances are and I know to avoid them. Is there a learning curve, you betcha, but there isn't anyone here that will let you walk that journey alone.
And when you want to know what is safe to eat, you just yell DEEEEEEEEEEEEEE and I'll do my best to give you the knowledge that I have acquired after experimenting, tweaking, many, many recipes in the last 6 years.
You are not in this alone, so drop, it's a guy thing, and lean on us, so we can help!!!!
Love
Dee~~~~
"What the heart gives away is never gone ... It is kept in the hearts of others."
Well written, Dee.
We are all anxious to help you Wayne.
When I received my Enterolab test results, I was shocked, but finally felt empowered instead of helpless in dealing with this disease.
Wayne, you have shown that you can control your destiny when you went on a diet and exercise regime. You can do this and you will feel better!
Gloria
We are all anxious to help you Wayne.
When I received my Enterolab test results, I was shocked, but finally felt empowered instead of helpless in dealing with this disease.
Wayne, you have shown that you can control your destiny when you went on a diet and exercise regime. You can do this and you will feel better!
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Dee,
That's a super post, and your words, and your sincerity, and compassion, brought a tear to my eye.
Many thanks for writing it.
Love,
Tex
That's a super post, and your words, and your sincerity, and compassion, brought a tear to my eye.
Many thanks for writing it.
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.