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My Low Dose Naltrexene has arrived and tonight, If I wish, I can take my first dose. My dilemma is: I read a lot of Dogtor J's information on lectins and all the damage they do to us, and how our bodies' "auto-immune reaction" to toxins like gluten, soy, corn, etc ... is a good thing, is just the body doing what it is supposed to do. Now I am wondering if I really want to shut down my body's reaction with LDN. Sheesh!
Any thoughts?
Linda
dilemma
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Linda in BC
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- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:39 am
- Location: Creston British Columbia
dilemma
"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible."
The 13th Dali Lama
The 13th Dali Lama
Linda,
Look at it this way - when someone who is not gluten-sensitive, eats a meal containing gluten, the gliadins to which most of us react, will simply pass through their digestive system basically unchanged. IOW, their body breaks down the amino acid chains in the same way that ours does, except that when they get down to the alpha gliadin peptides, for example, instead of their immune system getting "all bent out of shape", and issuing an "all hands on deck" order, and producing T-cell lymphocytes to beat the band, (the way ours does) - instead, nothing happens, and the gliadin peptides simply wake up the following morning in some public septic system.
In this case, ignorance is bliss, (IOW, their immune system was too "incompetent" to notice the "invaders" slipping through, but it didn't matter, because the invaders were simply tourists passing through, and not terrorists, after all.
Tex
Look at it this way - when someone who is not gluten-sensitive, eats a meal containing gluten, the gliadins to which most of us react, will simply pass through their digestive system basically unchanged. IOW, their body breaks down the amino acid chains in the same way that ours does, except that when they get down to the alpha gliadin peptides, for example, instead of their immune system getting "all bent out of shape", and issuing an "all hands on deck" order, and producing T-cell lymphocytes to beat the band, (the way ours does) - instead, nothing happens, and the gliadin peptides simply wake up the following morning in some public septic system.
In this case, ignorance is bliss, (IOW, their immune system was too "incompetent" to notice the "invaders" slipping through, but it didn't matter, because the invaders were simply tourists passing through, and not terrorists, after all.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Linda in BC
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- Location: Creston British Columbia
Ok... I might need some help to think your comment through, Tex. (Sorry, I am having lots and lots of brain fog lately 
)
So I think you are saying that theoretically, taking LDN, I would become like a "normal" person, one who's body will not get all bent out of shape when foods like gluten are consumed, therefore problem solved. But.... according to Dogtor J, ( and proponents of the Specific Carb and Paleo diets) we (humans) are not built to eat these things and they are actually doing us harm whether we react to them or not.
I guess you hit the nail right on the head... ignorance IS bliss. I was thinking that exactly myself when I wrote this original post. Because had I not read Dogtor J's stuff or about the paleo and SC diets, I would have been quite happy just merrily tricking my body into thinking lectins/wheat/ soy are not bad for me, and if it had believed it, just eating the way I want to/ always have. Now I guess I am not as sure.
However, I guess should take it , and see if it works first, before tying myself up in a knot here. If it doesn't work, well then there will be no dilemma!
Linda
)So I think you are saying that theoretically, taking LDN, I would become like a "normal" person, one who's body will not get all bent out of shape when foods like gluten are consumed, therefore problem solved. But.... according to Dogtor J, ( and proponents of the Specific Carb and Paleo diets) we (humans) are not built to eat these things and they are actually doing us harm whether we react to them or not.
I guess you hit the nail right on the head... ignorance IS bliss. I was thinking that exactly myself when I wrote this original post. Because had I not read Dogtor J's stuff or about the paleo and SC diets, I would have been quite happy just merrily tricking my body into thinking lectins/wheat/ soy are not bad for me, and if it had believed it, just eating the way I want to/ always have. Now I guess I am not as sure.
However, I guess should take it , and see if it works first, before tying myself up in a knot here. If it doesn't work, well then there will be no dilemma!
Linda"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible."
The 13th Dali Lama
The 13th Dali Lama
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Gabes-Apg
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- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Linda
like many many conditions, the choice comes down to - treat the symptoms or treat the cause.
my belief is that Big Pharma and the medical world focus on quick fix treat the symptoms.
in alot of conditions (not just MC or auto immune) this is not sustainable
IMO to gain long term health treating the cause or managing the cause is important. This is great in the ideal world, but like you i have to work and support myself so the decisions we make have to take into account: -
Affordability - what can we afford
Quality - quality of life for work and family etc
Acceptance - accepting the choices we make based on the decisions of the two points above
Someone might be able to afford entocort but can not tolerate it., those that can tolerate it, may not be able to afford it.
Gluten Free diet works for most - there are people like Izzy that can tolerate gluten fine and people like gloria that have a very very limited ingredient base...
like changing careers etc when there is so much to consider it is a huge huge decision. Where it involves our health and the wrong choice could mean chronic D, then it is very overwhelming.
alot of it in the early stage is try and see... take small steps with changes, so any adverse reactions can be monitored and pinpointed.
hope this helps
like many many conditions, the choice comes down to - treat the symptoms or treat the cause.
my belief is that Big Pharma and the medical world focus on quick fix treat the symptoms.
in alot of conditions (not just MC or auto immune) this is not sustainable
IMO to gain long term health treating the cause or managing the cause is important. This is great in the ideal world, but like you i have to work and support myself so the decisions we make have to take into account: -
Affordability - what can we afford
Quality - quality of life for work and family etc
Acceptance - accepting the choices we make based on the decisions of the two points above
Someone might be able to afford entocort but can not tolerate it., those that can tolerate it, may not be able to afford it.
Gluten Free diet works for most - there are people like Izzy that can tolerate gluten fine and people like gloria that have a very very limited ingredient base...
like changing careers etc when there is so much to consider it is a huge huge decision. Where it involves our health and the wrong choice could mean chronic D, then it is very overwhelming.
alot of it in the early stage is try and see... take small steps with changes, so any adverse reactions can be monitored and pinpointed.
hope this helps
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Linda,
While it's almost surely true that we weren't evolved to eat that stuff, the fact of the matter is that we did eat it, and quite happily, until our immune systems mutinied on us, and started wreaking havoc on our entrails. Until the controlling genes were triggered, there was no damage being accrued, and no apparent risk to our overall health. How do I know, you ask? Well, as a case in point, consider asymptomatic celiacs, (IOW, celiacs who show serum and histological evidence of celiac sprue, but who present no clinical symptoms). They're a worst case scenario, compared with us, before we developed symptoms, because we know that they have the disease, whereas we have nothing to even suspect that we might develop some disease in the future. For years, "medical experts" claimed that asymptomatic celiacs had the same risk of developing non-Hodgkins lymphoma, as untreated celiacs, who were symptomatic, (so their point was, even asymptomatic celiacs need to follow the GF diet).
It turns out, though, that someone finally got around to actually questioning this "claim", and when they did, low and behold, they discovered that asymptomatic celiacs have no more risk of developing non-Hodgkins lymphoma, than the average member of the general public. IOW, if they don't have any clinical symptoms, it doesn't matter that they have the disease, and it doesn't seem to matter that they don't adopt the GF diet, (at least as far as the most significant risk connected with celiac disease is concerned - namely, N-H lymphoma).
Please don't misunderstand me, because I have no doubt that the paleo diet is a far healthier diet than what most Americans eat these days, and I do believe that eating a paleo diet is much better for us than eating neolithic foods. Evidence of that is pretty clear from the fossil history. Average height of the population was significantly reduced, when people left their hunter-gatherer lifestyles, (which included a lot of meat in their diets), and started eating grains, with much less meat, (or none at all), in their diets.
That's not what we're talking about, though. Is it? With the paleo diet, lectins are not normally a part of the equation. Lectins are only a problem with certain neolithic foods. Therefore we're talking about eating neolithic foods, and either allowing adverse reactions to happen, which will probably subsequently lead to intestinal damage - or eating neolithic foods, and somehow preventing the reactions from developing. Given this choice, obviously, choosing to prevent the reactions would be the best course of action.
Incidentally, there might be another consideration here. Since LDN has unknown effects on the immune system, it's not impossible that it might have an effect on the production of IgA antibodies, which could possibly confound the Enterolab tests. I'm not saying that it will, I'm just saying that this is an unknown, and so it might be a possibility.
Tex
While it's almost surely true that we weren't evolved to eat that stuff, the fact of the matter is that we did eat it, and quite happily, until our immune systems mutinied on us, and started wreaking havoc on our entrails. Until the controlling genes were triggered, there was no damage being accrued, and no apparent risk to our overall health. How do I know, you ask? Well, as a case in point, consider asymptomatic celiacs, (IOW, celiacs who show serum and histological evidence of celiac sprue, but who present no clinical symptoms). They're a worst case scenario, compared with us, before we developed symptoms, because we know that they have the disease, whereas we have nothing to even suspect that we might develop some disease in the future. For years, "medical experts" claimed that asymptomatic celiacs had the same risk of developing non-Hodgkins lymphoma, as untreated celiacs, who were symptomatic, (so their point was, even asymptomatic celiacs need to follow the GF diet).
It turns out, though, that someone finally got around to actually questioning this "claim", and when they did, low and behold, they discovered that asymptomatic celiacs have no more risk of developing non-Hodgkins lymphoma, than the average member of the general public. IOW, if they don't have any clinical symptoms, it doesn't matter that they have the disease, and it doesn't seem to matter that they don't adopt the GF diet, (at least as far as the most significant risk connected with celiac disease is concerned - namely, N-H lymphoma).
Please don't misunderstand me, because I have no doubt that the paleo diet is a far healthier diet than what most Americans eat these days, and I do believe that eating a paleo diet is much better for us than eating neolithic foods. Evidence of that is pretty clear from the fossil history. Average height of the population was significantly reduced, when people left their hunter-gatherer lifestyles, (which included a lot of meat in their diets), and started eating grains, with much less meat, (or none at all), in their diets.
That's not what we're talking about, though. Is it? With the paleo diet, lectins are not normally a part of the equation. Lectins are only a problem with certain neolithic foods. Therefore we're talking about eating neolithic foods, and either allowing adverse reactions to happen, which will probably subsequently lead to intestinal damage - or eating neolithic foods, and somehow preventing the reactions from developing. Given this choice, obviously, choosing to prevent the reactions would be the best course of action.
Incidentally, there might be another consideration here. Since LDN has unknown effects on the immune system, it's not impossible that it might have an effect on the production of IgA antibodies, which could possibly confound the Enterolab tests. I'm not saying that it will, I'm just saying that this is an unknown, and so it might be a possibility.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Linda in BC
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- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:39 am
- Location: Creston British Columbia
Gabes
You are so right about it coming down to "treat the cause or the symptoms", and about having to weigh many factors in making these choices. And thank you for reminding me that I should not expect to find a solution overnight. I have been sick a very long time, and for that reason alone it will realistically probably take me longer to get well. I guess it is just so confusing/amazing/ exciting/overwhelming to actually have choices or any potential solutions or things to try. I have just put up with things the way they were and coped for so long that the thought that I might actually not have to live this way anymore has me very excited and anxious (understatement) to start along my path to wellness. I just don't know what it is yet, and that is very hard. Honestly, after 10 plus years of this, I might be willing to settle for just treat the symptoms! I have not ever had that choice before (except for Pepto or Lopermide, both of which I knew I should not over use, so saved for when I really needed to be symptom free) . Then once I am living a fairly "normal life" again ( oh , be still my heart!), I might be ready to look at more changes and longer term consequences.
Thanks again for your encouraging and wise words, Gabes.
Linda
You are so right about it coming down to "treat the cause or the symptoms", and about having to weigh many factors in making these choices. And thank you for reminding me that I should not expect to find a solution overnight. I have been sick a very long time, and for that reason alone it will realistically probably take me longer to get well. I guess it is just so confusing/amazing/ exciting/overwhelming to actually have choices or any potential solutions or things to try. I have just put up with things the way they were and coped for so long that the thought that I might actually not have to live this way anymore has me very excited and anxious (understatement) to start along my path to wellness. I just don't know what it is yet, and that is very hard. Honestly, after 10 plus years of this, I might be willing to settle for just treat the symptoms! I have not ever had that choice before (except for Pepto or Lopermide, both of which I knew I should not over use, so saved for when I really needed to be symptom free) . Then once I am living a fairly "normal life" again ( oh , be still my heart!), I might be ready to look at more changes and longer term consequences.
Thanks again for your encouraging and wise words, Gabes.
Linda
"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible."
The 13th Dali Lama
The 13th Dali Lama
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Linda in BC
- Rockhopper Penguin
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- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:39 am
- Location: Creston British Columbia
Tex
OMGoodness!!! You are brilliant! I never even thought of that. Huge implications. If I wait another week to do the test, and start the medication tonight, and it works, I may not get a "true " reading of my condition ( as it is now.. as it has been for so long.) Yipes! But then, on the other hand if it works... who cares? ha-ha -ahaaa (laughs insanely) (..gotta get an emoticon for that one..)
Ah.. excuse me a minute.... I think my brain is going to implode...
I'm back.
I have it! Guess I just take the test tonight ( should not be a problem if things stay as they have been
) and then "put it all on ice" so to speak til next week when I can ship. I'll just have to take my chances with the Vits A and E oil thing.
Thank you so much for mentioning your thoughts on that!
Linda
OMGoodness!!! You are brilliant! I never even thought of that. Huge implications. If I wait another week to do the test, and start the medication tonight, and it works, I may not get a "true " reading of my condition ( as it is now.. as it has been for so long.) Yipes! But then, on the other hand if it works... who cares? ha-ha -ahaaa (laughs insanely) (..gotta get an emoticon for that one..)
Ah.. excuse me a minute.... I think my brain is going to implode...
I'm back.
I have it! Guess I just take the test tonight ( should not be a problem if things stay as they have been
) and then "put it all on ice" so to speak til next week when I can ship. I'll just have to take my chances with the Vits A and E oil thing. Thank you so much for mentioning your thoughts on that!
Linda
"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible."
The 13th Dali Lama
The 13th Dali Lama
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8367
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
in my case with a myraid of health issues, i am treating the symptoms for hormone issues and spending majority of my energy on treating the cause for the digestion... it took me a while to accept that i could not do it all natural and work.
after 10 years of crap
there is nothing wrong with treating the symptoms for now, get energy and focus back and when you feel ready, embrace a different management regime.
the really sucky part of this thing - there are no short cuts, there is no express bus or train that will get us to the idylliac location really quick.
there is no guarentee that what works for me will work for you!
there is love, support, wisdom, humour, courage and a shoulder or two (or three or four)
take a deep breath, (or two or three...... there are no wrong turns, all there is, is lessons learned and steps forward........
after 10 years of crap
there is nothing wrong with treating the symptoms for now, get energy and focus back and when you feel ready, embrace a different management regime.
the really sucky part of this thing - there are no short cuts, there is no express bus or train that will get us to the idylliac location really quick.
there is no guarentee that what works for me will work for you!
there is love, support, wisdom, humour, courage and a shoulder or two (or three or four)
take a deep breath, (or two or three...... there are no wrong turns, all there is, is lessons learned and steps forward........
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
-
Linda in BC
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 801
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:39 am
- Location: Creston British Columbia
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Linda in BC
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 801
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:39 am
- Location: Creston British Columbia
One of the things I like about my family doctor... he likes to make sure that anything I take doesn't interact badly with other things.
I take crestor, norvasc, and entocort. If I need to take anything for a specific problem..like when I had pneumonia and shingles.. and have a reaction.. he has me narrow down my medications to the current problem.. drop the other drugs for a week or so.. which he considers safe for ME. If the medication for the current condition gives me no problems.. then he has me add back the others one at a time.. to make sure there are no unacceptable interactions.
In other words.. I work closely with him and we introduce things much like you do when you start foods with an infant... one at a time..watching for reactions:)
grannyh
I take crestor, norvasc, and entocort. If I need to take anything for a specific problem..like when I had pneumonia and shingles.. and have a reaction.. he has me narrow down my medications to the current problem.. drop the other drugs for a week or so.. which he considers safe for ME. If the medication for the current condition gives me no problems.. then he has me add back the others one at a time.. to make sure there are no unacceptable interactions.
In other words.. I work closely with him and we introduce things much like you do when you start foods with an infant... one at a time..watching for reactions:)
grannyh
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Linda in BC
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That is a good idea, granny h, and it is so good that you have a doc that works with you on this. I am myself try to read up on drug interactions before starting any new drug or supplement. I was nervous about taking the LDN at the same time as the L-Glutamine as both impact neurotransmission and brain functioning, so I have decided to stop taking the L-glutamine for now. Just for the record, it did not seem to have made any measurable improvment. If anything, believe it or not, I seemed to have been worse in some ways. Specifically, although there has been a slight thickening of the liquid that passes for my stool ( sorrry everyone.. gross, I know!) the frequency of movements has increased. I used to be able to predict somewhat when I would be needing to be near a toilet, but since starting on the L-glut, it seems I need to be near one anytime of day or night.
Also, for the record, I will be very interested to see if actually am gluten intolerant. I suspect I am not, as I had said when I first joined (in response to a post where some said a little bit of bread seems to glue things together, and I said I found that too.) I have been pretty much GF for the past two weeks. Yesterday in total hunger and frustration, and part experiment, I had a half a casein free bagel around 3 o'clock. Nothing changed. No mad rush to the toilet 2 hours later. No gas or explosions as i get with casein. I suppose it could be argued that the L-glutamin was working and protected me, though. Guess I 'll see with the test results but I just thought I would report that here to see if my prediction is right.
L.
Also, for the record, I will be very interested to see if actually am gluten intolerant. I suspect I am not, as I had said when I first joined (in response to a post where some said a little bit of bread seems to glue things together, and I said I found that too.) I have been pretty much GF for the past two weeks. Yesterday in total hunger and frustration, and part experiment, I had a half a casein free bagel around 3 o'clock. Nothing changed. No mad rush to the toilet 2 hours later. No gas or explosions as i get with casein. I suppose it could be argued that the L-glutamin was working and protected me, though. Guess I 'll see with the test results but I just thought I would report that here to see if my prediction is right.
L.
"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible."
The 13th Dali Lama
The 13th Dali Lama
Just reading the fine print on drugs... and looking them up on the internet for side effects..etc.. does not necessarily mean those "facts" apply to everyone. Some of us don't absorb drugs well.. and that may cause them to not work or not work as well as we expected they would. Then again maybe because we don't absorb a certain drug as well as expected it just may work anyway. It is all about OUR OWN bodies.. we have to determine what we can and cannot take.
grannyh
grannyh