Calcium supplements raise heart attack risk?!?

[Zizzle]

"(Reuters) - Calcium supplements, which many people consume hoping to ward off osteoporosis, may increase the risk of heart attack by as much as 30 percent, researchers reported Friday"
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66S6GU20100729

It seems the spike in unnatural calcium levels taken as supplements (versus food) has the abilty to form clots and harden arteries. I once read the tablets can go through undigested (especially for us with D), so I take capsules.

I've been taking more calcium citrate plus magnesium and D since I went GF/DF. I just don't know how else to get adequate calcium. I drink fortified milk substitutes, but isn't that equivalent to taking supplements? Or is the dose the important part? If my calcium pills provide 33% RDA with two pills, should I take only one at a time and spread them out over the day?

What do you all do to get adequate calcium and magnesium?

[starfire]

I take calcium supplements also, but not too large a dose. Can't remember exactly what it is but I think it's 600. Calcium/Magnesium Citrate + Vit. D.

Seems like anything you do to fix one problem messes with something else.

Love, Shirley

[JLH]

Oh, boy. I take calcium pills (Freeda Vitamins) and use spray magnesium oil.

[tex]

You have to recognize that everything, (and I mean everything), that we ingest, and everything we do, of a physical nature, affects our health, which means that it also affects the rest of our lives. Everything affects everything else, in one way or another. Looking at this from an engineer's perspective, every input parameter affects the outcome of the process. Some effects are significant, while some are so small as to be negligible, but every input has an effect on virtually every component in the system, either directly or indirectly.

Not only that, but every input provides some benefits, while also causing some harm. Nothing is perfect - nothing is entirely benevolent, and nothing is entirely detrimental - even toxins have some benefits, (if you consider Botox to be beneficial). Everything is a tradeoff - in order to improve one thing, something else must get "hurt". There are no free lunches.

For example, at the insistence of a small army of doctors, I'm taking a statin, a serious blood thinner, (Plavix), a beta-blocker, and an ACE-inhibitor, in order to reduce my presumed stroke risk. However, by doing so, I am well aware that I am significantly increasing my overall risk of mortality by other causes, including cancer, and infections, (mostly because of the statin drastically lowering my cholesterol level). If all goes according to plan, the doctors will be happy, because a stroke will be averted. I may not be so happy, though, because the alternatives don't seem particularly appealing, and the odds of them becoming reality, are increased, by following this treatment plan.

It's a tradeoff, not unlike the proverbial "making a deal with the devil". I'm trading short-term benefits, for long-term risks. You do something similar, when you take a supplement, such as calcium.

Tex

[Rosie]

Good points, Tex. It seems like every nutrient has its "15 minutes of fame", where it's touted for some sort of "miraculous" benefit, and then its downside gets publicized. There are always tradeoffs...........

The entire scientific article is available for free http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/341/jul29_1/c3691

I took a quick look and was struck by this comment in the article:

We excluded trials concerning calcium and vitamin D given together with a placebo comparator (trials were only eligible if vitamin D was given to both intervention and control groups, because vitamin D supplementation has been associated with decreased mortality17

and

The results therefore may not apply to coadministered calcium and vitamin D supplements.

So if we take calcium plus Vit D, the results may not apply to us! If anything, this paper may point out the importance of Vit. D.

Also, it appears prudent to take supplemental calcium in small doses spread out through the day, rather than one or two big doses.

Rosie

[tex]

Rosie,

Thanks for locating the BMJ article. I think we can all breathe a sigh of relief about this particular "risk", because the BMJ article also includes this statement:

Conclusions Calcium supplements (without coadministered vitamin D) are associated with an increased risk of myocardial infarction.

Now that statement, I can believe. The journalists who are interpreting this stuff for the public, obviously don't know what they're doing, or they intentionally leave out some of the important information, in order to make the news more sensational. I don't see vitamin D mentioned anywhere in the Reuters article.

Tex

[Rosie]

Tex, there are some interesting responses to the article from other scientists making some of your same points! http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/341/jul29_1/c3691

What caught my eye was that several of these responses mentioned the importance of Vit K2 for bone health and calcium uptake into bone. IBDs were specifically mentioned as being associated with Vit K deficiency. I haven't seen the issue of Vit K2 discussed here, but a quick google search shows that it might be a helpful supplement to those of us struggling with osteoporosis because of our general malabsorption issues. Most of the Vit K2 is made by bacteria in the intestine which converts Vit K1 from our diet to K2. And the main sources of Vit K1 are green leafy vegetables and the Brassicas, like cabbage, broccoli, etc........which of course are off most of our lists. And some Vit K2 is available in chicken and egg yolk. Also, Vit K is a fat-soluble vitamin, and many of us have issues with fat malabsorbtion. And because of our IBD, perhaps we don't have as much bacterial conversion of the Vit K1 to K2. Supplements are available, but I'm sure it gets complicated, because Vit K2 also has a prominent role in the blood clotting cascade. For example, people on the blood thinner coumadin can't take Vit K2, as it inactivates the coumadin. I have Factor V Leiden, which predisposes me to blood clots, so I would want to do more investigation on that issue.

And unfortunately there here isn't a commercial test available yet for Vit K2 blood levels, so you can't find out if you are deficient. But I'm going to do some more research, as Vit K2 may be important in improving my bone density.

Rosie

[tex]

Rosie,

Maybe K2 will turn out to be the next "ignored" vitamin, and it will follow in the footsteps of vitamin D.

Tex

[Gabes-Apg]

i didnt read the article - but wondered - was there any mention about patients self administrating their dosage of calcium and if they were doing cal mag in the right proportions?

and maybe a link to this issue is that people are not having regular tests( blood, bone density etc) and not getting guidence as to the dosage they should be having? including testing and guidence with Vit D levels.


Tex

Now that statement, I can believe. The journalists who are interpreting this stuff for the public, obviously don't know what they're doing, or they intentionally leave out some of the important information, in order to make the news more sensational. I don't see vitamin D mentioned anywhere in the Reuters article

Agree totally - cant let the facts get in the way of a good story.


i went to my GP on friday, it was another new one (my 3rd in 2 years) she was quite good, she obviously had not had a chance to read my history so i gave her the 30 words or less summary, and asked for the referral for blood tests for B levels and Vit D and we discussed a few other things that we should check, I agreed with all her suggestions, i will go and have a bone density test as well and then we will discuss calcium/vit D and other nutrients etc once we have a 'comprehensive' story on what is happening
i was happy that she was not going to rely on just blood tests and of course that she was not questioning my MC management (ie Diet) she agreed that i must be doing ok if i had not have major flares or had other illnesses like colds and flus with our winter season and my work travels.

[tex]

Gabes,

Congratulations on finding another "MC-friendly" doctor.

Tex

[Gabes-Apg]

Tex

I think more so they see that i am confident, in control and have quite defined ideas re my MC, and dont try to challenge me.

[Zizzle]

Maybe K2 will turn out to be the next "ignored" vitamin, and it will follow in the footsteps of vitamin D.
Tex

Dr. Mercola has been trying to sound the Vitamin K alarm for a few years. I've read at least 2 articles about it in the last couple of months. He ties it to diabetes, heart disease, bone density, cancer, and vericose veins.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... -risk.aspx

[tex]

Thanks for that link. You know, looking back a couple of generations or so, (IOW, looking at how our grandparents and great-grandparents lived, 50 to 100 years ago), and comparing their diets and lifestyles with ours, today, it's no wonder that cancer, inflammatory bowel disease, and all manner of ailments, (especially allergies and food intolerances), are increasing, (despite all the billions of dollars thrown at medical care and research, over the decades). Back in those days, our grandparents got all their vitamins and minerals from their diet, by eating real food, (except for vitamin D, which they also derived from exposure to the sun). These days, the government, food manufacturers, and the medical community, have convinced us that we should get our vitamins and minerals from food additives, (in the form of "enriched" foods), and we avoid the sun by slathering on sunscreen, and hanging out in air-conditioned buildings. One of the biggest trends in food fads, today, is enriched "junk food" - stuff that we shouldn't be eating in the first place, but since it's "enriched", it's claimed to be healthy and nutritious.

Even the government and the medical community are convinced that eating a nutrient-based diet is the way to go. A few generations ago, people would have laughed at that idea - why worry about nutrients, when whole, healthy foods, contained everything they needed for good health and energy? Today, we pasteurize milk, irradiate foods, and soak them with preservatives. Since all the processing destroys a lot of the nutrition that the food originally contained, all sorts of additives are used, to try to not only restore the original nutrition level, but enhance it, (to make it better, doncha know). Our grandparents raised most of their own food, and didn't process it to death, so additives weren't needed. I'm sure their diets weren't perfect, by any means, but I have a hunch that for the most part, they did a much better job of getting the vital vitamins and minerals that they needed, and by eating only local foods, the risks of accidentally being exposed to most of the pathogens that make the national headlines today, were extremely low.

Here's the greatest problem with the current nutrient-based system - by pretending that we are smart enough to "know" which nutrients are important, and emphasizing them, we run the obvious risk of "outsmarting" ourselves, and accidentally overlooking a few vital elements that significantly change the logistics of long-term health, over the generations. It's even conceivable that some of the damage may be irreversible, and the health of not just individuals, but of our entire species may be damaged forever, because of certain long-term dietary indiscretions. The current vitamin D "crisis", (and presumably K2), is a good example of the risks of our current system.

We often think of the paleo people as smaller in stature than modern humans, with a short life expectancy, but in reality, on the average, they were just as tall, or taller, and obviously much stronger than we are, (and the neanderthals were even larger and stronger). True, many of them didn't live long, because of environmental hazards, (most predators could outrun humans, and hospitals hadn't been invented, yet, to treat health issues that did arise), but baring unforeseen "accidents", life expectancy was actually quite long. After a million years or so of evolution, we've improved our standard of living immensely, but our health in general, seems to have declined significantly.

Tex

[Joefnh]

Tex the very term "enriched junk food" is such an obvious contradiction. Actually the very thought makes me sick...

Going back to my grandparents, one of their favorite gripes was all of adulterated foods .. Of course being young and "informed & modern" we ignored their concerns and wisdom. Now of course its the whole foods and simple foods that are helping our diseased bodies... go figure

--Joe

[tex]

Joe,

LOL. I think the industry prefers to call it "snack food", and things of that sort - "junk food" was just my choice of terms.

Tex