joint pain

[Martha]

Has anyone experienced an increase in joint pain after going gluten-free?

I have had arthritis in my hands for about 7 years. The doctor told me to take Aleve, but I chose instead to try glucosamine/chondroitin. That worked very well for me. I went from my hands being so stiff in the morning that I had to shove them to get them started moving to not having any stiffness or pain at all.

I read in "The Lectin Report" by Krispin Sullivan: "Lectins can be inactivated by specific carbohydrates.... Glucosamine is specific for wheat lectin and it is this specificity that may protect the gut and cartilage from cell inflammation and destruction in wheat (or gluten) responsive arthritis."

Since glucosamine helped my arthritis so much, I thought I must indeed have this wheat-responsive arthritis. So I thought that going gluten free would help the arthritis, and that maybe I would eventually not need the glucosamine.

But about 3 weeks into my gluten-free diet, which I started on Oct. 11, I began noticing that my knees were a bit uncomfortable when I walk down stairs, and my left thumb joint has sharp shooting pains sometimes when there is pressure on the joint, like if I pick something up and it touches the thumb joint. (I had had that sharp pain before, along with the stiffness).

That was a great surprise to me, since everything I've read had led me to believe that going gluten free would decrease joint pain.

Does anybody have any ideas what might be going on?

[tex]

No, that's just the opposite of what happened to me. I too found relief in glucosamine and flax seed oil, but the GF diet finished off the remaining symptoms, rather than restarting them.

Are you by any chance taking a statin? My symptoms, (especially stiffness in my fingers in the mornings), have increased since I started taking a statin last May.

I read "The Lectin Report" several years ago, but I apparently overlooked the point that you brought up about glucosamine deactivating wheat lectin. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'm just as puzzled as you are, by your unusual response to the diet. As far as I'm aware, the GF diet isn't normally associated with any form of Herxheimer effect. Has the diet affected, (caused, increased, or decreased), any other symptoms?

Tex

[MBombardier]

Hi Martha! Since I am in McKinney until Tuesday at oh-dark-thirty, I was looking for an emoticon to give you a Texas "hi" but the screen on my netbook is so small I gave up. When I get back on my desktop it'll be like, "Whoa!"

Anyway... joint pain. Since Polly posted that about Dr. Benton's book, I feel more confident posting this because I think we all are more open-minded about alternative therapies than the general population.

A brief summary: I have never had back pain, until suddenly in the spring of 2009 I was hit with excruciating back pain for absolutely no reason. I went to the MD, who helpfully diagnosed me with unspecified back pain and loaded me up with Vicodin.

Since there was no reason for this back pain, I started research using our friend, the internet. Over the course of time, I ran across Dr. John Sarno, who has done a great deal of research on the mind-body connection. Basically what he says is that the subconscious tries to protect the conscious mind from pain by distracting it with pain elsewhere in the body. The subconscious will fasten on anything, like joint damage, to convince the conscious that there is a reason for the pain.

Now, I realize that you have arthritis, but one of the most convincing things to me was reading about cases where the physical damage would be the same in joints (for example, both hips) but there would be pain in only one. Or people who would have the same degenerative changes in their spines and one would be debilitated with pain and the other would have no pain at all.

Eventually, I ran across Scott Brady, an MD who as a young man was told he had the spine of an 80-year-old and would have to deal with chronic pain all his life. He has an amazing story, and now helps people to understand the mind-body connection and find relief from chronic pain. He lists irritable bowel syndrome as one of the things that people have found relief from by understanding this function of the mind.

I know it sounds horribly goofy, and like it will not work, and truthfully, I have had a hard time convincing anyone of the relief that I have found through understanding that our subconscious mind does this. And I have to keep convincing myself that it really does work because it sounds so goofy. But it does.

[wonderwoman]

Has anyone experienced an increase in joint pain after going gluten-free?

I have been completely GF since early March. This week I will be cutting down to 4 Entocort a week as the stools have been consistently normal.

I sure have a lot of back aches and extreme morning stiffness and again after sitting. I keep waiting for it to decrease since being gluten free and it doesn't. My sciatica has also been bothering me again since maybe July. I think I possibly twisted something while swimming because that's when the sciatica started again.

If I went to the doctor he would tell me to start out by taking Ibuprofen or Naproxen. I don't want to take either as I was on and off large doses of those in 2008 and again in Sept 2009 and that's when the D really hit hard. Was diagnosed February 2010 with CC. If the pain is too bad I will take a Tylenol but I prefer to sit with ice on my back rather than take drugs. I read where aspirin is an anti-inflammatory drug. Is aspirin safe for us to be taking as an anti-inflammitory?

Physical therapy, exercises, acupuncture, and chiropractor did nothing for me in 2008. I eventually had an EMG done (nerve testing to the right leg) which showed the nerve was being affected. January 2009 I had an epidural steroid injection into the spine at the L4/L5 level and that relieved the pain. The doctor used ultrasound to guide the needle into the exact area of the spine. I am about ready to ask for a referral to the orthopedic doctor and request another steroid injection. Would another steroid injection cause me to have a set back with the progress I have made with the CC?

[tex]

I read where aspirin is an anti-inflammatory drug. Is aspirin safe for us to be taking as an anti-inflammitory?

No, unfortunately, aspirin and all other NSAIDs are verboten for anyone with MC, because they have been documented to be a primary cause of MC.

Would another steroid injection cause me to have a set back with the progress I have made with the CC?

That shouldn't have any adverse effect on your state of remission with MC. Evidently, something other than gluten is causing your back pain problems.

Tex

[wonderwoman]

Yes Tex, I have come to that conclusion myself. I looked back and the testing just before the epidural steroid injection in January 2009 showed nerve compression. I am calling tomorrow for a referral.

I just picked a beautiful orange from our neighbors tree. I am going to try eating one and see what happens. Now is the time when the fruit begins to ripen down here. If I can handle an orange a day, then I will pick a bushel, squeeze them with the electric juicer, and freeze the juice. A sticker on my Entocort RX container said not to eat grapefruit so I will continue to avoid them. I actually prefer grapefruit to oranges.

[Bifcus16]

Charlotte wrote:

My sciatica has also been bothering me again since maybe July. I think I possibly twisted something while swimming

Hi Charlotte. I wonder if you might have a tight butt from the swimming. Seriously, the sciatic nerve goes across or through a muscle in your butt called piriformis. Depending on the luck of the draw, your sciatic nerve may go below or above piriformis (best options) or right through the middle of the muscle (worse option). When you get a tight piriformis, it basically restricts the nerves and you get 'sciatica'.

Google piriformis syndrome for info on stretches that can really help a lot.

Lyn

[tex]

Grape fruit should be avoided with many drugs. Due to a chemical that it contains, which inhibits an enzyme in the intestines that metabolizes certain drugs, more of the drug can be absorbed than normal, which amounts to an overdose. Grapefruit is/was produced by crossing the Asian fruit pomelo with an orange, and pomelo also contains the chemicals which cause grapefruit to interact with so many drugs, so pomelo should be avoided, also, (when taking a drug that is affected by grapefruit).

Tex

[Linda in BC]

Dear Marliss,

I have never heard of Dr. John Sarno, or read any theories on this other than a book by a woman named Louise Hay called "You Can Heal Your Life", but I have, appparently, several things wrong with my body (a quite pronounced scoliosis of the spine, and now, osteo arthritis in my spine) and yet, (thank goodness) I don't suffer any pain from either of these conditions. I also never had much pain from the MC. Interesting, isn't it?

I'll have to see if I can read something of Dr. Sarno's.

Linda

[MBombardier]

I read that book, Linda. It was recommended to me by a friend. Our minds are amazing, aren't they? And I'm sure we hardly know anything about them, really. Thankfully, I have little chronic pain, either, and when I do have some I try to figure out what may be stressing me out or what may have triggered something from the past that I should either be dealing with or letting go.

I am really looking forward to reading the book Polly mentioned, Dr. Benson's Relaxation Response. Having pretty much lost the genetic lottery with reference to autoimmune stuff and several fatal diseases, I can see this book could be highly beneficial.

[Martha]

Tex, I don't take any medications except hormones, and I started those after the arthritis began. No statins.

Charlotte, it sounds like you and I are in a weird minority of people who have joint pain despite being gluten-free.

Marliss, is the premise of the book that physical pain is displaced emotional pain? I can't think of any unresolved emotional issues, but I suppose if I knew about them, they wouldn't need to get displaced to a physical problem. A few years ago I mentioned to a friend that I had arthritis. She has a healing ministry, and her first question to me was did I have any ancestors who had been Masons? She said that Masons take some kind of oath that if they break the oath their descendants have all sorts of physical problems, including arthritis. She said it was part of a generational curse. As far as I know, there are no Masons in my lineage. I lean more towards thinking it is actually something physical, but am open to other explanations.

Marliss again, I bet you have enjoyed these too-few days with your granddaughter. What's her name? You've been in McKinney; I am in southwest Dallas, in a little finger of the city that juts in between Duncanville and Cedar Hill. I hope you appreciate the cold weather we're having, just to make you feel at home!! My 11-month old granddaugher is coming for Christmas, so we'll have her, and our 13-month old grandson, who lives in the area, for the holiday. Their parents, too, of course, but the truth is, my children have been upstaged by their children! Babies are so fun. Have a safe trip home tomorrow.

Linda, I don't have any pain from MC either, but the arthritis has the potential for pain. My mom is in pretty much constant chronic pain from arthritis and osteoporosis. I have both of those, although no major pain yet, since I've been taking glucosamine. I never have been able to convince Mom to take glucosamine; she can't swallow big pills.
She had digestive issues much of her adult life, so I'm guessing that she might have had MC too, but she never had any tests done. They always blamed it on residual effects of amebic dysentery.

The connection of relaxation and genes is amazing. I'll have to try to find the book too, and begin meditating. That's not something I've ever done before.

[MBombardier]

Hi Martha! I'm home again, home again, jiggety-jig. Actually, the unusually cold weather in DFW, especially acoompanied by wind, was a reminder of why I don't care for the Midwest in winter. The PNW, at least in the low lands, is usually quite mild in the winter with temps in the 40's and 50's, rarely in the 30's and 20's. The Columbia River gorge curves around this part of Washington and the wind rushes down it and generally misses Vancouver, though Portland gets its share.

My granddaughter's name is Elena Grace, and I miss her and her parents already. She is a contented baby, and a real blessing. I hope you have a wonderful time with your grands this Christmas!

About Sarno and Brady: The premise is that chronic physical pain is a defense mechanism of the subconscious trying to protect the conscious mind from emotional pain. It doesn't have to be traumatic--we all bury emotional pain. For example, Brady in his journaling discovered that instead of being an affable, mild-mannered physician that nothing bothered very much that he was actually angry with his patients sometimes. As he dealt with this unexpected and unwanted character quality, he also dealt with the buried emotional pain from being angry without realizing it.

Sarno goes through a complicated process explaining this using Freudian psychological terms. but I like the way Brady explains it. Basically, our subconscious wants to protect us from pain by dealing with the boxes in the living room instead of going down to the scary basement and cleaning out the boxes down there.

As far as the Masons are concerned... there is a proverb in the Bible that says, "Like a flitting sparrow, like a flying swallow, so a curse without cause shall not alight." I don't think we need to be concerned about curses from our ancestors affecting us except if we think that they do, or will. If you mention that to your friend, it might help her minister healing to others.

Stay warm!

[Martha]

So if you were to recommend just one book, it would be Brady rather than Sarno? I want to get one that I can understand, and I don't like jargon unless I'm the one using it! By the way, I saw your 5 stars as a review of Brady's book.

If you can answer this before you start your week of lurking, great. Otherwise I'll get your recommendation later on.

[MBombardier]

Yes. I would recommend Brady's book over Sarno's. He spent some time with Sarno, so he's quite familiar with Sarno's work.

Back to lurking...

[Kari]

Martha,

FWIW, I thought I'd share my pain management method with you. I also don't take any medication except for hormone replacement for my thyroid. I started getting joint pains and stiffness about 12 years ago, and had a lot of discomfort when getting up in the morning. My PCP said it was arthritis. About 8 years ago I started doing yoga on a regular basis, which I have kept up and swear by.

I've "worked out" since my 20s, trying all kinds of exercise systems, but nothing compares to yoga. Suffice it to say that I'm pretty much pain free now, and have been for years, even my finger joint pains and swelling have gone away. I will keep doing yoga as long as I live, because there are exercises for any level of fitness or age. I'm realizing that I might be preaching to the coir since you may very well already have a yoga practice, but just thought I'd mention it.

Love,
Kari