Can anyone explain the instant bloating?

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Zizzle
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Can anyone explain the instant bloating?

Post by Zizzle »

The hallmark of my IBS (pre-MC diagnosis) was major bloating all the time (but no major belching or gas). I had given up on wearing fitted tops and dresses. I had to buy big pants just to accomodate my waist size. I was 5'4", 125 lbs, and had a 30 inch waist. My sister was the same way. Our parents are slender with bellies, so we figured it was just our inherited build. When I went GF/DF, my belly drastically shrunk. It felt like a miracle!

BUT, when I eat something questionable, something with possible (or obvious) gluten or dairy contamination, I get bloated WITHIN MINUTES of the first bite. By the time the meal or snack ends, I look 4 months pregnant. I can see my belly inflating, I can even feel the skin stretching. But I don't suddenly start belching or farting. Perhaps a little more than my new normal (which is almost none, ever--very strange).

Does anyone know what the body is doing in response to the wrong foods when you bloat like that? How can it react so fast when the food barely made it into the stomach? It can't be related to undigested food in the colon. It's no longer the swollen, inflammed, fluid-filled tissues of my GI tract that caused my chronic swollen abdomen before the diet. What is it? :bloated:
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sarkin
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Post by sarkin »

Now that you ask, I wonder that, too, Z. I haven't eaten anything questionable in a while - but when I was first locking down my diet, I found that even small amounts of rice had the same effect. I have since had small amounts of rice, without bloating.

Your reaction sounds faster and more extreme than mine. Funny, our height/weight/sizes are remarkably similar (now that I've lost 10 lbs.-ish). Waiting to take all my waistlines in till I know if this is my "real" weight. Probably should invest in some belts!

Great question. I didn't even think to wonder. My brain goes straight to "uh oh" without engaging the thinking process.

--S
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Zizzle
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Post by Zizzle »

Sara,
So great to "see" you!!
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Post by patc73 »

Z, I was going to ask the same thing! Last night I had a small iceberg lettuce salad with one thin slice of tomato, some onion, a squirt of Bragg's Liquid Aminos (soy), and a teeny bit of rotisserie chicken. I did eat a little chicken skin. I blew up like a balloon! Now I'm wondering: is there gluten on rotisserie chicken skin? Dairy? Or was the lettuce, tomato, or soy the culprit? (The only other thing I ate was Fritos, which don't bother me.) If MC is a disease of the colon, how come my tummy starts rumbling in seconds? :???:
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tex
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Post by tex »

OK, here are my thoughts:

MC is incorrectly described in the medical journals, as a disease of the colon, (only). We, (the members of this board), know for a fact that it can affect any part of the digestive system, from mouth to anus, similar to Crohn's disease. Collagenous gastritis, (thickened collagen bands in the lamina propria of the stomach), and collagenous sprue, (thickened collagen bands in the lamina propria of the small intestine), are 2 examples of MC symptoms in the stomach and small intestine, respectively. In addition to that, examination of biopsy samples from the stomach and small intestine of patients with MC will frequently show lymphocytic infiltration, (the primary marker of LC), in the mucosa of the stomach and the small intestine. If it quacks like a duck, . . .

Interestingly, lymphocytic infiltration of various areas of the small intestine is virtually always present with celiac disease, also, which certainly suggests a common link between the two diseases.

But I can't answer your questions about "instant" bloating. :shrug: The gas that produces bloating is generally a byproduct of fermentation by bacteria, and fermentation is a time-dependent process - it doesn't happen instantly, though, of course, it can be initiated almost instantly, and from there it propagates somewhat rapidly. The colon is notorious for fermenting carbohydrates that arrive undigested, (or partially digested), and this is the mechanism by which it "digests" food that reaches it in anything less than totally digested form. Also, due to the time-dependent nature of water extraction, passage through the colon allows sufficient time for a substantial amount of fermentation to take place, if the feedstock, (undigested food), is available.

Transit times through the stomach and small intestine are typically much shorter, and ideally, bacteria with a penchant to promote fermentation should be absent in those segments of the GI tract. With MC, those transit times are even shorter, so that reduces the odds of fermentation even further, as a possible candidate for the cause of rapid bloating.

SIBO, (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth), where bacteria normally found only in the colon, somehow manage to migrate into, and establish colonies in the small intestine, might explain rapid bloating, but even then, it would seem logical that a certain minimal amount of time would have to pass before enough gas were generated to create a bloated condition.

So what does this leave as a possible suspect? I'm beginning to suspect gastroparesis. Gastroparisis, of course, is incomplete, or delayed emptying of the stomach contents, due to compromised motility, caused by a failure of the normal peristaltic pumping action of the stomach muscles. Bloating is a common symptom of gastroparesis, because is allows undigested, (or partially-digested food), to remain in the stomach too long. Usually, though, gastroparesis is accompanied with a feeling of premature fullness, (after only a few bites of food are taken), and nausea/vomiting is common/typical. I often had major problems with gastroparesis during the early stages of my reactions.

Accute gastroparesis is usually pretty obvious, as it can sometimes present virtually as a blockage at the pyloric sphincter, (the "valve" between the stomach and the small intestine), but I can see how a limited degree of gastroparesis might result in a failure of the stomach to completely empty, thus setting up the opportunity for fermentation, since the means of starting the fermentation process would always be present, (in the form of rotting food, that shouldn't be there). That would appear to present a scenario whereby almost instantaneous fermentation could result, (IOW, as soon as "new" food entered the stomach, the existing small supply of decaying food could quickly propagate fermentation of the added foodstock, before it could be properly converted to chyme, by the normal digestive process.

Another possibility that comes to mind would be inadequate stomach acidity. If the acidity of the stomach is not adequate, (IOW, if the pH of the stomach is not low enough), digestion cannot initiate properly, and food will spoil very quickly in that warm, moist environment - plus the fact that a pH that is not low enough will allow any bacteria that might be present to not only survive, but thrive, (and thereby initiate spoilage very quickly). The pH of the stomach should be in the range of 2 to 3, for proper digestion, (7 is neutral, and anything above that is alkaline, of course).

Other than by swallowing several whole Alka-Seltzer tablets, I don't see a logical mechanism by which "instant" bloating could take place, unless some means were always present for initiating a fermentation process in the stomach, and/or duodenum. :shrug:


Patc,

FWIW, iceberg lettuce is so irritating to the colon, that it virtually guarantees a reaction for almost anyone with MC. It was so bad for me, that even though I've been in remission for over 7 years now, and I could eat lettuce now if I wanted to, I have never had a desire to add it back into my diet. Even so, lettuce shouldn't cause instantaneous bloating, unless it directly irritates the lining of the stomach; and, of course, that suggests gastritis. :shrug:

Tex
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Post by patc73 »

Tex, thanks for your knowledge about this condition! I'll definitely avoid iceberg lettuce from now on! :smile:
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MBombardier
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Post by MBombardier »

Interesting...one would think that a tell-tale sign of gastroparesis would be recalcitrant bad breath. Maybe everyone suffers from this to one extent or another, which is why there is such a proliferation of mouthwashes, etc. Have you ever noticed that babies and very young children don't have bad breath? Even after they start eating real food and have teeth, it is rare.
Marliss Bombardier

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Post by tex »

Marliss,

Gastroparesis is caused by neurpathy, and it's most commonly associated with diabetes, (both types). My thoughts on the topic are - anyone with MC, who is experiencing gastroparesis, (and who is not a diabetic), probably is having neuropathy issues, associated with gluten-sensitivity, and they should be on the lookout for signs of peripheral neuropathy symptoms. That was certainly my experience, and I find that even though I have been in remission for over 7 years now, the neurological damage that accumulated in my system before I changed my diet, is continuing to cause a decay in my neurological health. For example, my left arm is slowly developing more significant indications of parasthesia, (tingling, numbness), with every passing month. About 6 or 8 months ago, I noticed that it seemed to "go to sleep" more often than it should, and it took longer to "wake it up". Now, I can feel a slight to moderate amount of parasthesia, virtually all the time. :sigh: I'm not a diabetic, but it's possible that I may be an celiac, FWIW.

That bad breath concept works at the other extreme, also. After my colectomy, (almost 16 months ago), for several months, my feces were odorless. :shock: My first thought was, "Wow! This is cool - no more nostril-searing odors to have to deal with at Potty time". :lol: Unfortunately, once my gut began to collect the normal populations of gut bacteria again, my "sweet-as-a-baby's-breath" fragrance, slowly disappeared. :roll: It took over 2 months for any noticeable changes to initiate, but once it began, things went downhill in a hurry, and after a couple more months, the "bouquet" was pretty much back to normal. :roll: With an ileostomy, the odor is not quite as harsh as those associated with passage through a colon, but close enough, for all practical purposes. :lol:

Tex
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Post by tex »

Patc,

If you hate to face the thought of trying to live without lettuce, if I recall correctly, Polly mentioned that she can tolerate romaine lettuce much better than iceberg lettuce. I believe that someone else mentioned that they can handle romaine lettuce, also. You might give that a try, to see if you can tolerate it.

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by sarkin »

Tex,

Yup, that was me - I'm eating romaine, and some other leafy greens (both raw and cooked). I keep the quantities modest if raw, and so far - so good.

I recommend a nice chopped salad (smaller pieces, for starters), unless your healing is well underway.

Also have had luck with 'green drink' - various greens in a powerful blender with water (and a squeeze of lemon, if that works for you). That would have turned me inside out a couple months back, but now it's pleasant and refreshing, if you're feeling digestively well, and happen to be a hard-core health-food nut like myself.

(And I know I'm a broken record today - but that would be another case where I would *not* recommend any add-in 'miracle foods' from the health-food purveyor... no protein powder, spirulina, goji, acai, bee pollen... etc. - because unless you know exactly what's in that stuff, you'll never know which ingredient was to blame if you have a problem. If homemade, that's a whole 'nother story.)

Love,
Sara
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Post by sarkin »

Tex,

That's sobering news, about the continuing progression of neuropathy despite your dietary vigilance and high-quality medical supplements. Though my finger-thumb numbness is gone, I do wonder whether I have not had other neuro effects. I had a fall in 2007 and broke my wrist - I never saw quite why I fell in that spot, at that moment, and wonder whether it wasn't partly due to a transient balance problem. That would be much less likely to 'go away' than some other types of gluten damage... and might worsen.

Hm.
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tex
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Post by tex »

Yep, I definitely have balance issues, since the advent of my neuropathy symptoms, (years ago). My balance is better, since I've been taking Metanx regularly, and so are my reflexes, but some of the damage seems to be permanent, (and apparently still progressing). :sigh:

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Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by sarkin »

Balance is scary - I never realized what an uneven surface the whole planet earth, is till my mother started having mobility and balance and strength and gait problems.

Glad to hear the Metanx helped with that, and I hope it at least slows the progression. And I guess we should all be careful out there on that bumpy road.

Wishing you smooth sailing,

Sara
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tex
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Post by tex »

Thanks,
Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by Gloria »

Tex, that's pretty worrisome. Are you certain that the numbness is the result of ingesting gluten all those years? I think it could have another cause and you probably should check it out. Isn't it rather rare to have peripheral neuropathy after being off gluten for years?

I know that one doctor incorrectly diagnosed you with Parkinson's, and you may be reluctant to trust another's opinion, but this sounds serious enough that you probably should consider seeing someone.

Gloria
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