Is It Possible ...

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:22 am

Cynthia,

I'm pretty sure that casein is what gives me the most trouble, since I tested positive at Enterolab, as well as judging by my severe reaction. The puzzling thing (and one of the reasons I did the challenge) is that I tested negative for the various dairy items (including milk) on the MRT test. I can only assume their test does not detect casein sensitivity.

Love,
Kari

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:02 am

Kari,
That was truly extreme. The last time I had a sizeable dairy challenge (a large swig of a frozen fruit drink made with condensed milk), I developed intense bloating within minutes. My stomach literally blew up like a balloon. I looked pregnant and the skin hurt from stretching so far! I developed battery acid D within 1 hour and the D purge continued for at least 8 hours. I don't recall joint pain or other issues. I've slipped and eaten vegetables with butter on them without a huge reaction. Butter has very little casein compared to milk -- it's mostly fat. Cheese on the other hand is like super-condensed milk, so it has lots of casein (not to mention histamine).

My doctor mentioned something interesting regarding milk digestion. He said once you stop eating dairy, your body loses the lactobacilli required to digest dairy, and that's why there is no going back. I suppose one could try replenishing some lactobacilli before re-challenge, but I doubt we could create the right mix of bacteria (not to mention lactase enzyme) to adequately digest it.

I hope you feel better soon!

Post by **tex** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:41 am

Kari wrote:The puzzling thing (and one of the reasons I did the challenge) is that I tested negative for the various dairy items (including milk) on the MRT test.

It seems that a lot of members also test negative to wheat gluten on the MRT, so I'm guessing that the MRT does not detect IgA-type reactions, and the major allergens such as gluten and casein don't necessarily generate any other types of reactions. That's why we still need to rely on the Enterolab tests as the first line of defense against autoimmune-type reactions, because they are definitely the most damaging.

Love,
Tex

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:50 am

Zizzle,

Your doctor's observation makes all the sense in the world to me, since I have never experienced anything that extreme - thanks for sharing it. I suspected dairy issues all those years of D., nausea and bloating (my main symptoms), and even cut down on it somewhat by eliminating creamy sauces, etc., but I always ate cheese. If your doctor is right, it pretty much eliminates dairy for me for the rest of my life :(.

Love,
Kari

P.S. Other than slight nausea after breakfast, I feel almost good as new - the annoying stomach gurgling is gone.

Post by **tex** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:59 am

Zizzle wrote:He said once you stop eating dairy, your body loses the lactobacilli required to digest dairy, and that's why there is no going back.

Ummmmm - maybe. I avoided all dairy products for almost 2 years, when I was healing, but I was still able to reintroduce it into my diet later, (slowly, of course). I will admit, though, that about once every 6 months or so, I tried a little dairy, to see if I had healed enough to be able to handle it, so maybe that was often enough to keep a few of them alive.

Obviously, those bacteria don't disappear from the system overnight, though I'm sure their population level declines drastically, when we reduce or stop our dairy intake. I have a hunch that a small core population will remain for many years, and if we reintroduce dairy slowly, (in small, increasing amounts), the residual population will expand to meet our needs, (so long as we're not otherwise intolerant of casein of lactose). Of course, all bets would be off, if we were to take a powerful antibiotic regimen, while population levels were low.

Tex

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:24 am

Interesting Tex - I'm sooo curious about how you'll score on your Enterolab dairy test - when are you planning to do it???

Love,
Kari

sarkin · Post by **sarkin** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:47 am

Tex,

I wonder whether your special relationship with sauerkraut, while you were healing, in some way contributed to the support of this population - either by 'feeding' them something they like other than dairy, or even by reintroducing them within the sauerkraut's own population of various bacteria?

I'll be interested to know, too, about your Enterolab test. I think dairy is a mean, bad food, but I'd feel that way about pretty much anything that treated me so poorly - apparently, I am not the forgiving sort!

Love,
Sara

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:59 pm

I was off dairy for about 2 years about 9 or 10 years ago because of..you guessed it...digestion problems! When they resolved I went right back on them, with no further problems for years. Or so I thought.

I tried goat's milk cheese a couple of weeks ago. It didn't do anything. Nothing like the explosions I got from turkey and duck. Weird.

Post by **tex** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:11 pm

Kari and Sara,

I ordered the kit today.

I suppose it's possible that the kraut might have helped in some way.

Love,
Tex

Deb · Post by **Deb** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:12 pm

I think this is why I'm afraid to totally quit dairy. I still seem to tolerate it without D, my fat absorption has improved,
and I really don't notice any discernable effects. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:17 pm

Which tests are you doing Tex?

Post by **tex** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:15 pm

Anti-casein and anti-gliadin. I did the others 6 and a half years ago.

Tex

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:02 pm

In the beginning I thought I was just lactose-intolerant, because I seemed to be able to tolerate cheese (which is high in casein but lower in lactose). However, after being GF and LF for a month or so, I started having issues with cheese, so I eliminated all dairy. My reaction after not having had dairy for a couple of months was MUCH worse than reactions I had had in the past. I'm not sure why this is, but it seems that our reactions get worse before they get better!

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:02 pm

Are you thinking you will still be sensitive?

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:12 am

Good question--I have actually posted about this, and general consensus was that a reaction to the proteins in foods like gluten, soy, dairy (casein) and eggs is probably permanent. I may not always be lactose-intolerant, but I think casein will always be out for me. On the upside, I had a GF pizza with soy cheese yesterday that was pretty good!