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Hi everyone, I've been away from the board awhile. It seemed like the holidays swallowed me up and then I went back to school and it finished me off. My home computer also decided to misbehave and had to go in the shop. I picked up a nasty virus that turned into a sinus infection and have been battling that for 2 weeks. I've taken antibiotics and other non-MC friendly stuff, but my MC is behaving itself thank goodness and things are still good on that front. Welcome to all the newcomers and just know you've found a wonderful home. I owe my remission to this site because of all the wonderful advice, wisdom, and sharing. I was talking to a friend who said she heard that sourdough breaks down the gluten in bread. I remember reading that someone here mentioned they could eat sourdough bread. I got curious and googled "sourdough affecting gluten" and found the following information. There are other articles, too. Have we ever discussed this or was I just out of the loop?
It's interesting and I may try it at some point, but not for awhile. I'm enjoying remission too much to jeopardize anything. Tex, what's your thinking????
http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nu ... ntolerance
http://web.me.com/seattledebs/gofrolic/ ... en_II.html
I'm off for a few weeks and hope to post more. Thanks again for all you share and give, JoAnn
Hi All-Sourdough beats gluten????
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Hi All-Sourdough beats gluten????
Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway. John Wayne
Hi JoAnn,
Sourdough breads are usually low-gluten breads, and some celiacs who have a higher threshold for gluten tolerance than many of us, can eat low-gluten products without triggering a reaction. You will notice that in the bread mix used in that small study, only 30% of the flour was from wheat, the rest was from oats, millet, and buckwheat, so that reduced the gluten by another factor of 3. Personally, I consider that practice to be somewhat like eating a little bit of poison, while keeping it under the "lethal" level, because for a celiac who does that, the damage to their small intestine will never completely heal, but as long as they keep the amount of gluten ingested at a low enough level, they will not notice any significant clinical symptoms. In the case of MC, it's the colon that receives the most damage, of course, though the small intestine is also involved, in many cases. This is similar to using enzymes advertised to help the digestion of gluten. They might reduce the level of undigested peptides, somewhat, but they certainly won't eliminate the problem completely. The anti-zonulin pills that Dr. Fasano is working on would be a much safer way to go, if you want to try to eat foods that contain gluten. They may be available in a year or two, since the FDA has granted fast-track status to the project.
From the first link:
Yes, many people can eat it, and not have significant symptoms, but they do so at the expense of a residual level of gut inflammation, below the threshold at which a reaction would be triggered. They won't feel sick, but since their intestines will always carry a certain level of damage, they may be vulnerable to the increased risk of non-Hodgkins lymphoma that is associated with untreated celiac disease. And, they would probably be at an increased risk of developing the leaky gut syndrome, because of the chronic low-level inflammation.
Everyone is different, of course, and everyone probably has a slightly different tolerance threshold for gluten, also. Gluten is quite addictive, especially to someone who has eaten it for many, many years. Those who crave gluten, and who have a relatively high tolerance threshold, will probably go for sourdough bread, while those of us who who view gluten as poison, will tend to stay away from it.
Love,
Tex
Sourdough breads are usually low-gluten breads, and some celiacs who have a higher threshold for gluten tolerance than many of us, can eat low-gluten products without triggering a reaction. You will notice that in the bread mix used in that small study, only 30% of the flour was from wheat, the rest was from oats, millet, and buckwheat, so that reduced the gluten by another factor of 3. Personally, I consider that practice to be somewhat like eating a little bit of poison, while keeping it under the "lethal" level, because for a celiac who does that, the damage to their small intestine will never completely heal, but as long as they keep the amount of gluten ingested at a low enough level, they will not notice any significant clinical symptoms. In the case of MC, it's the colon that receives the most damage, of course, though the small intestine is also involved, in many cases. This is similar to using enzymes advertised to help the digestion of gluten. They might reduce the level of undigested peptides, somewhat, but they certainly won't eliminate the problem completely. The anti-zonulin pills that Dr. Fasano is working on would be a much safer way to go, if you want to try to eat foods that contain gluten. They may be available in a year or two, since the FDA has granted fast-track status to the project.
From the first link:
The problem with this approach is that it addresses the main problem, (the alpha gliadin peptide), and probably a number of others, but unfortunately, there are roughly 100 different giladin and glutenin peptides in gluten, to which many gluten-sensitive people react. Most of them are far less potent than the 33-mer peptide, but they still cause damage to the gut, and the affect is cumulative, so the sheer number of these problematic peptides makes a solution using this approach, very questionable."The selected sourdough lactobacilli had specialised peptidases capable of hydrolysing Pro-rich peptides, including the 33-mer peptide, the most potent inducer of gut-derived human T-cell lines in CS patients," write the researchers.
Yes, many people can eat it, and not have significant symptoms, but they do so at the expense of a residual level of gut inflammation, below the threshold at which a reaction would be triggered. They won't feel sick, but since their intestines will always carry a certain level of damage, they may be vulnerable to the increased risk of non-Hodgkins lymphoma that is associated with untreated celiac disease. And, they would probably be at an increased risk of developing the leaky gut syndrome, because of the chronic low-level inflammation.
Everyone is different, of course, and everyone probably has a slightly different tolerance threshold for gluten, also. Gluten is quite addictive, especially to someone who has eaten it for many, many years. Those who crave gluten, and who have a relatively high tolerance threshold, will probably go for sourdough bread, while those of us who who view gluten as poison, will tend to stay away from it.
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Tex, I knew there had to be more to this than I could understand from the article and it was an older small study. I really appreciate the time you take to break things down and explain them in a way that makes sense to me. I really have no desire to ever put gluten back in my diet after experiencing so many problems with it. Thanks again for clearing things up and I will hopefully be able to explain this to my friend. Sometimes it's just easier to tell them thanks for trying to be helpful and let it go. JoAnn
Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway. John Wayne
Hi Joann,
I have been eating sourdough bread for ten years with no side effects. In fact I went into remission for 4 years of the ten. I continue to eat sourdough bread, and typically, I use it as sandwich bread and rolls at dinner. Anything I can do to try to gain weight. I do not have any side effects from eating it. I discovered this on the MC board ten years ago, when I read a post from another MC'er that was eating sourdough bread with no side effects.
Karen
I have been eating sourdough bread for ten years with no side effects. In fact I went into remission for 4 years of the ten. I continue to eat sourdough bread, and typically, I use it as sandwich bread and rolls at dinner. Anything I can do to try to gain weight. I do not have any side effects from eating it. I discovered this on the MC board ten years ago, when I read a post from another MC'er that was eating sourdough bread with no side effects.
Karen
Apparently you don't realize that not being able to gain weight is a side effect of active MC. You know, if you were to control your diet, and actually go into remission, you would probably be able to gain weight easily.Karen wrote:Anything I can do to try to gain weight. I do not have any side effects from eating it.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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MaggieRedwings
- King Penguin
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Definitely not willing to upset the apple cart and eat sourdough as much as I used to love it. Favorite of my breads. Remember eating fresh-out-of-the-oven sourdough in San Francisco. What a treat. My dream used to be that when I died and went to heaven - now that is questionable 
- it would be a bakery in the sky. Now it is just to not have MC.
Love, Maggie
- it would be a bakery in the sky. Now it is just to not have MC.Love, Maggie
Maggie Scarpone
___________________
Resident Birder - I live to bird and enjoy life!
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Resident Birder - I live to bird and enjoy life!
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wonderwoman
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 574
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:59 pm
- Location: Sun City, AZ
Haven't been here for several weeks because of an extremely busy schedule but still doing very well. I even got through the last week in January that I knew was going to be very stressful without any change in BM's.
Tex wrote
This was certainly true for me. I had originally lost 15 pounds and wanted to keep off ten. I weigh myself almost every day and since November have seen my weight slowly increase. DARN! I record it on my BM diary along with other notes so I have see it going up.
I have divided several Entocort into empty gel caps and I am down to 1/2 an Entocort twice a week. My plan is to continue the Entocort this way for two weeks yet and then discontinue them. That will take me up to my birthday.
It was on my birthday last year that I feel I was completely GF, DF, SF. I did very well until traveling for three weeks last summer. Then after being home for several weeks and still having extreme D and dehydration, I went on Entocort 7/30. This took care of the D immediately for me and I went to two Entocort within 4 days. I continued to slowly decrease the dosage over the past seven months.
Again I owe so much to this board. Had I not found it almost a year ago, right after my dx of CC, I probably would still be suffering. Thanks to everyone here.
Tex wrote
You know, if you were to control your diet, and actually go into remission, you would probably be able to gain weight easily.
This was certainly true for me. I had originally lost 15 pounds and wanted to keep off ten. I weigh myself almost every day and since November have seen my weight slowly increase. DARN! I record it on my BM diary along with other notes so I have see it going up.
I have divided several Entocort into empty gel caps and I am down to 1/2 an Entocort twice a week. My plan is to continue the Entocort this way for two weeks yet and then discontinue them. That will take me up to my birthday.
It was on my birthday last year that I feel I was completely GF, DF, SF. I did very well until traveling for three weeks last summer. Then after being home for several weeks and still having extreme D and dehydration, I went on Entocort 7/30. This took care of the D immediately for me and I went to two Entocort within 4 days. I continued to slowly decrease the dosage over the past seven months.
Again I owe so much to this board. Had I not found it almost a year ago, right after my dx of CC, I probably would still be suffering. Thanks to everyone here.
Charlotte
The food you eat can be either the safest and most powerful form of medicine, or the slowest form of poison. Ann Wigmore
The food you eat can be either the safest and most powerful form of medicine, or the slowest form of poison. Ann Wigmore
Hi Tex, I am trying to control my diet. Yesterday morning, I tried Gluten free Rice Chex with coconut milk for breakfast and I have been sick with bad D all night, and this morning. At this point I have a very limited variety of food that I can eat. I am still trying to figure out what I can eat, as this flare is completely different. There are foods I cannot eat this time, that I could eat when I first was diagnosed ten years ago.
For example, I cannot eat any kind of potatoes or chicken for some reason....crazy.
karen
For example, I cannot eat any kind of potatoes or chicken for some reason....crazy.
karen
Karen,
I'm sorry you had a reaction to the Rice Chex. For some reason or other, many celiacs, (and many members here), also cannot eat Rice Chex without reacting. The situation was bad enough, that last summer, General Mills invited a group of prominent celiac bloggers and writers to their Betty Crocker headquarters for a tour and discussions about the issues. As best I can determine, the general consensus of most of the group, after they returned home, was that General Mills gets a "A" for effort, but about a "C" for performance. Several of those guests seemed to feel that General Mills does not take the issue of attention to details, and the risks of cross-contamination seriously enough.
When the reformulated Rice Chex first became available, I, too, reacted to it. A few weeks ago, I tried it again, (several times), and that box seems to work OK, so I'm not sure if I was just lucky enough to buy a safe box, or if they are beginning to get their ducks in a row at General Mills. Anyway, that may be the reason why you reacted to it. You're not alone with that problem. In fact, so many people reacted to it, that I can't remember if anyone here who tried it actually had good results from it.
Chicken is another questionable item. Until about last year, we were not aware of anyone here who had any problems with chicken, (unless, of course, they bought one of the "injected" chickens). Natural, un-injected chicken, seemed to always work fine. Now, though, we have a surprising number of members who react to chicken, even when it has an "organic" certification. So far, to the best of my knowledge, all of those members who react to chicken, can tolerate turkey just fine, though. So you might be able to substitute turkey, in place of chicken. I'm not sure if something is happening with the chickens themselves, or if we are just now becoming aware of the problem, but for whatever reason, chickens are no longer a safe food for everyone.
Very few members have a problem with potatoes, but quite a few seem to have a problem with sweet potatoes, (possibly because of the higher fiber content?). Can you eat sweet potatoes? They're a good substitute, if you can tolerate them.
Tex
I'm sorry you had a reaction to the Rice Chex. For some reason or other, many celiacs, (and many members here), also cannot eat Rice Chex without reacting. The situation was bad enough, that last summer, General Mills invited a group of prominent celiac bloggers and writers to their Betty Crocker headquarters for a tour and discussions about the issues. As best I can determine, the general consensus of most of the group, after they returned home, was that General Mills gets a "A" for effort, but about a "C" for performance. Several of those guests seemed to feel that General Mills does not take the issue of attention to details, and the risks of cross-contamination seriously enough.
When the reformulated Rice Chex first became available, I, too, reacted to it. A few weeks ago, I tried it again, (several times), and that box seems to work OK, so I'm not sure if I was just lucky enough to buy a safe box, or if they are beginning to get their ducks in a row at General Mills. Anyway, that may be the reason why you reacted to it. You're not alone with that problem. In fact, so many people reacted to it, that I can't remember if anyone here who tried it actually had good results from it.
Chicken is another questionable item. Until about last year, we were not aware of anyone here who had any problems with chicken, (unless, of course, they bought one of the "injected" chickens). Natural, un-injected chicken, seemed to always work fine. Now, though, we have a surprising number of members who react to chicken, even when it has an "organic" certification. So far, to the best of my knowledge, all of those members who react to chicken, can tolerate turkey just fine, though. So you might be able to substitute turkey, in place of chicken. I'm not sure if something is happening with the chickens themselves, or if we are just now becoming aware of the problem, but for whatever reason, chickens are no longer a safe food for everyone.
Very few members have a problem with potatoes, but quite a few seem to have a problem with sweet potatoes, (possibly because of the higher fiber content?). Can you eat sweet potatoes? They're a good substitute, if you can tolerate them.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I'm one who reacts to chicken and sweet potatoes. My meat diet is mainly beef, pork, and fish. I don't know why I react to sweet potatoes. The strange thing is I can eat refried beans (lots of fiber) with absolutely no problems.
JoAnn
JoAnn
Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway. John Wayne
Hi Tex, right now, I cannot eat so many foods, it is mind boggling. I had this problem when I became ill with MC 10 years ago. After being on Entocort for a year or so, I gradually was able to eat again.
Right now, I cannot eat chicken, beef, pork loin. I can eat ham, turkey, fish, shrimp, sliced deli chicken.
I cannot eat potatoes, but I can eat sweet potatoes.
I can eat potatoe chips.
I cannot eat rice or rice pasta.
I can eat navy beans, but not green beans.
Gluten free foods do not work for me at all.
I am beginning to think it is more the texture/consistancy of the food than the actual food itself. If that makes sense.
Karen
Right now, I cannot eat chicken, beef, pork loin. I can eat ham, turkey, fish, shrimp, sliced deli chicken.
I cannot eat potatoes, but I can eat sweet potatoes.
I can eat potatoe chips.
I cannot eat rice or rice pasta.
I can eat navy beans, but not green beans.
Gluten free foods do not work for me at all.
I am beginning to think it is more the texture/consistancy of the food than the actual food itself. If that makes sense.
Karen
Hi Karen,
I noticed in your post that you had coconut milk with your rice chex. I'm in the midst of the nastiest flare I've had since I went gluten free last July, and believe it's because of coconut milk. However, I don't think it's the coconut that bothers me, but rather the guar gum they put in it as a thickener. I know coconut milk has been discussed here many times before, so you're probably aware of the ingredients in the various brands, but thought I'd alert you just in case.
Hope you feel better soon.
Love,
Kari
I noticed in your post that you had coconut milk with your rice chex. I'm in the midst of the nastiest flare I've had since I went gluten free last July, and believe it's because of coconut milk. However, I don't think it's the coconut that bothers me, but rather the guar gum they put in it as a thickener. I know coconut milk has been discussed here many times before, so you're probably aware of the ingredients in the various brands, but thought I'd alert you just in case.
Hope you feel better soon.
Love,
Kari
"My mouth waters whenever I pass a bakery shop and sniff the aroma of fresh bread, but I am also grateful simply to be alive and sniffing." Dr. Bernstein
Karen,
Hmmmmmm. That's quite a dilema, since deli chicken is still chicken, (with added ingredients), ham is still pork, (with added ingredients), and potato chips are still potatoes, (again, with added ingredients). That's quite a puzzle, because I don't understand how adding ingredients could make them less inflammatory, or less irritating to your digestive system.
Tex
Hmmmmmm. That's quite a dilema, since deli chicken is still chicken, (with added ingredients), ham is still pork, (with added ingredients), and potato chips are still potatoes, (again, with added ingredients). That's quite a puzzle, because I don't understand how adding ingredients could make them less inflammatory, or less irritating to your digestive system.
I don't understand what you're saying with that statement. Do you mean that gluten-free foods actually make you sick, or are you saying that they just don't prevent you from having symptoms?Karen wrote:Gluten free foods do not work for me at all.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
