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What do you think is the main cause of bloating in someone with MC?
i feel great all day and then evening comes and my stomach swells up and i dont feel very well for about an hour.
thanks,
sheila
bloating
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Sheila,
At this point, bloating means that I have eaten something that doesn't work for me. In the early stages, foods I can now tolerate also caused bloating - even small amounts of rice, for example, which seem OK for me. You may be able to figure out a food with small amounts of an ingredient that you know you react to, hiding somewhere in your diet.
On the other hand, if this is happening daily, you may have either a new intolerance (hope not!), or a temporary response to something that may go away when you are more healed - either way, it must be something you're eating regularly, if it's happening regularly. (If it's occasional, that's much easier to figure out!)
Hope this helps,
Sara
At this point, bloating means that I have eaten something that doesn't work for me. In the early stages, foods I can now tolerate also caused bloating - even small amounts of rice, for example, which seem OK for me. You may be able to figure out a food with small amounts of an ingredient that you know you react to, hiding somewhere in your diet.
On the other hand, if this is happening daily, you may have either a new intolerance (hope not!), or a temporary response to something that may go away when you are more healed - either way, it must be something you're eating regularly, if it's happening regularly. (If it's occasional, that's much easier to figure out!)
Hope this helps,
Sara
Hi Sheila,
To add to what Sara said, bloating in virtually every situation, is due to the fermentation of undigested or partially digested food in our intestines. If any stage of the digestive process is not carried out successfully, then none of the digestive processes downstream will work properly, either. For example, if the stomach is low on acid, then when the chyme reaches the small intestine it will not be adequately prepped, and the digestive enzymes secreted by the pancreas, the gallbladder, and the brush border region of the duodenum, will not be able to complete the digestive process. Most of the fermentation problem will be due to unsplit sugars, which will subsequently be fermented by bacteria in the colon, as a default, (but not beneficial), digestive process.
Low stomach acid is not the usual problem with MC, though, (unless the patient is taking a PPI) - the primary problem is foods to which we are sensitive, (because they initiate an autoimmune reaction), and that reaction triggers inflammation in the intestines. When the small intestine is subjected to enteritis, (inflammation), enzyme production is curtailed, which results in the inability to complete the digestive process. This is a long-term, (chronic), process, however, and it does not suddenly occur each time you eat a meal, (though eating allergenic foods reinforces it). Instead, it is ongoing, and the reason you notice it after eating, is because eating provides more fodder for the fermentation process. It's like shoveling more coal into the furnace.
The main offenders are gluten and casein, (I'm not sure whether soy can even cause gas and bloating, per se, though it can certainly cause D), but even too much sugar can cause bloating, because of low enzyme production, and even moderate amounts of fiber can certainly cause gas and bloating, because the only way we have to digest fiber, is by fermentation.
Tex
To add to what Sara said, bloating in virtually every situation, is due to the fermentation of undigested or partially digested food in our intestines. If any stage of the digestive process is not carried out successfully, then none of the digestive processes downstream will work properly, either. For example, if the stomach is low on acid, then when the chyme reaches the small intestine it will not be adequately prepped, and the digestive enzymes secreted by the pancreas, the gallbladder, and the brush border region of the duodenum, will not be able to complete the digestive process. Most of the fermentation problem will be due to unsplit sugars, which will subsequently be fermented by bacteria in the colon, as a default, (but not beneficial), digestive process.
Low stomach acid is not the usual problem with MC, though, (unless the patient is taking a PPI) - the primary problem is foods to which we are sensitive, (because they initiate an autoimmune reaction), and that reaction triggers inflammation in the intestines. When the small intestine is subjected to enteritis, (inflammation), enzyme production is curtailed, which results in the inability to complete the digestive process. This is a long-term, (chronic), process, however, and it does not suddenly occur each time you eat a meal, (though eating allergenic foods reinforces it). Instead, it is ongoing, and the reason you notice it after eating, is because eating provides more fodder for the fermentation process. It's like shoveling more coal into the furnace.
The main offenders are gluten and casein, (I'm not sure whether soy can even cause gas and bloating, per se, though it can certainly cause D), but even too much sugar can cause bloating, because of low enzyme production, and even moderate amounts of fiber can certainly cause gas and bloating, because the only way we have to digest fiber, is by fermentation.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Sheila,
I am having the same problem. During the day, I'm not so bloated, but after dinner, my stomach is bloated with right side pain. I started keep a record of everything I eat and drink to see if I can figure this all out. My guess is my evening pills and supplements -- HBP pill, my 5mg statin, and a few supplements such as calcium and magnesium. Other than that and maybe??? onions, joint juice, peanut butter(I hope not), I'm truly stumped.
This is frustrating.
I hope you figure it out.
garina
I am having the same problem. During the day, I'm not so bloated, but after dinner, my stomach is bloated with right side pain. I started keep a record of everything I eat and drink to see if I can figure this all out. My guess is my evening pills and supplements -- HBP pill, my 5mg statin, and a few supplements such as calcium and magnesium. Other than that and maybe??? onions, joint juice, peanut butter(I hope not), I'm truly stumped.
This is frustrating.
I hope you figure it out.
garina
bloating
well i havent been completely honest.
i have gone GF and DF BUT i went back eating rolled oats for breakfast in the last week or 2, also i am almost done with entocort, down to 1 pill a day.
I started eating the rice chez with rice milk a while ago, but couldnt eat it anymore as it tastes awful and i am so sick of eating it so went back on the oatmeal and would feel really great after eating it.
today, i am back on the awful rice chez with the same milk.
i will see tonight if that is the culprit i guess or maybe its the fact that i have only 2 more pills of entocort left?
what do you think?
i have gone GF and DF BUT i went back eating rolled oats for breakfast in the last week or 2, also i am almost done with entocort, down to 1 pill a day.
I started eating the rice chez with rice milk a while ago, but couldnt eat it anymore as it tastes awful and i am so sick of eating it so went back on the oatmeal and would feel really great after eating it.
today, i am back on the awful rice chez with the same milk.
i will see tonight if that is the culprit i guess or maybe its the fact that i have only 2 more pills of entocort left?
what do you think?
Garina,
Calcium blockers, and statins have been shown to cause MC in some cases. If I remember correctly, a few cases have even been shown to have been caused by ace inhibitors.
Tex
Calcium blockers, and statins have been shown to cause MC in some cases. If I remember correctly, a few cases have even been shown to have been caused by ace inhibitors.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Sheila,
If you like oatmeal, why not try another hot cereal - or another cold cereal with another milk, for that matter? Way more than two choices are possible for breakfast - no need to start the day eating something you hate.
Garina,
I'm sure Tex is typing even now about his horrifying experience with digestive enzymes - I do believe that Digest Gold is a good one, and have taken it on and off for years because a friend's brother has worked with that company in the past, and he is very knowledgeable and particular. I don't know whether they help, per se. I took a break from all supplements at one point, which helped me figure out which ones I needed to discontinue (or switch brands). I have Digest Gold in the house right now, and take it occasionally without trouble... which doesn't mean it will agree with you.
It's possible you could wean off the statins (obviously do not take medical advice from me!)... let's just say, I am not a fan of that class of drugs. I have printed this article to show my doctor next month: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 95,00.html - I'm hoping this will move her to some other topic of conversation other than trying again to persuade me I need to take statins. They are reputed to be of most help (and least risk) for middle-aged men with serious heart troubles.
I am not familiar with Joint Juice, but would be suspicious - it could be the sweetener, the flavoring agent, the coloring... even if the active ingredients are helpful. I know, easy for me to be a minimalist about *your* joint pain - but I would consider looking for those ingredients in a proven 'clean' product, if possible. I only looked at one product online - here are the ingredients: Filtered Water, Juice Concentrate Blend (Pear, Cranberry and Pomegranate Juice Concentrates), Contains 1% or less of the following: Malic Acid, Natural Flavors, Sodium Hexametaphosphate (to retain freshness), Citric Acid, Red 40, Potassium Sorbate (to retain freshness), Sucralose, Gum Arabic, Acesulfame Potassium, Blue 1.
Sucralose and acesulfame potassium are both artificial sweeteners - plus 2 coloring agents, 2 preservatives... even 'natural flavors' could be a problem, and many of us have reacted to citric acid while healing.
I am always big on removing offenders before adding aids like Digest Gold - and if anything in your supplements or medications is bothering you, I don't think Digest Gold can overcome it entirely...
Hope this helps,
Sara
If you like oatmeal, why not try another hot cereal - or another cold cereal with another milk, for that matter? Way more than two choices are possible for breakfast - no need to start the day eating something you hate.
Garina,
I'm sure Tex is typing even now about his horrifying experience with digestive enzymes - I do believe that Digest Gold is a good one, and have taken it on and off for years because a friend's brother has worked with that company in the past, and he is very knowledgeable and particular. I don't know whether they help, per se. I took a break from all supplements at one point, which helped me figure out which ones I needed to discontinue (or switch brands). I have Digest Gold in the house right now, and take it occasionally without trouble... which doesn't mean it will agree with you.
It's possible you could wean off the statins (obviously do not take medical advice from me!)... let's just say, I am not a fan of that class of drugs. I have printed this article to show my doctor next month: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 95,00.html - I'm hoping this will move her to some other topic of conversation other than trying again to persuade me I need to take statins. They are reputed to be of most help (and least risk) for middle-aged men with serious heart troubles.
I am not familiar with Joint Juice, but would be suspicious - it could be the sweetener, the flavoring agent, the coloring... even if the active ingredients are helpful. I know, easy for me to be a minimalist about *your* joint pain - but I would consider looking for those ingredients in a proven 'clean' product, if possible. I only looked at one product online - here are the ingredients: Filtered Water, Juice Concentrate Blend (Pear, Cranberry and Pomegranate Juice Concentrates), Contains 1% or less of the following: Malic Acid, Natural Flavors, Sodium Hexametaphosphate (to retain freshness), Citric Acid, Red 40, Potassium Sorbate (to retain freshness), Sucralose, Gum Arabic, Acesulfame Potassium, Blue 1.
Sucralose and acesulfame potassium are both artificial sweeteners - plus 2 coloring agents, 2 preservatives... even 'natural flavors' could be a problem, and many of us have reacted to citric acid while healing.
I am always big on removing offenders before adding aids like Digest Gold - and if anything in your supplements or medications is bothering you, I don't think Digest Gold can overcome it entirely...
Hope this helps,
Sara
It could be due to tapering off Entocort before your intestines have had time to do enough healing, and it could be due to the combination of oats and insufficient Entocort.. How long have you been taking Entocort?Sheila wrote:i will see tonight if that is the culprit i guess or maybe its the fact that i have only 2 more pills of entocort left?
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Sara wrote:I'm sure Tex is typing even now about his horrifying experience with digestive enzymes
I'll spare you the misery of reading that again. Garina,
If poor digestion is the problem, enzymes might help. If you're eating any food that you're sensitive to, or taking a drug that causes you to react, though, I doubt that an enzyme will provide much help.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
bloating
Tex,
i have been taking entocort at 9mgs/6 weeks, then 2pills/2 weeks 1pill/2 weeks and 2 pills left so i am taking them every other day.
have my 1st GI appt since diagnosis and entocort on friday.
i am hoping he will let me do the enterolab testing or MRT.
thanks,
sheila
i have been taking entocort at 9mgs/6 weeks, then 2pills/2 weeks 1pill/2 weeks and 2 pills left so i am taking them every other day.
have my 1st GI appt since diagnosis and entocort on friday.
i am hoping he will let me do the enterolab testing or MRT.
thanks,
sheila
Sara,
What you described sounds like my joint juice bottle. I drink it because it helps (a little) with joint pain and also it has Vit D3 400 IU. I thought I was doing myself a little good, but, all the other junk I don't need. Thanks for pointing that out. Back to water.
I am going to try and wean off the statin because, after reading that article you posted, the memory loss scares me more than the muscle pain. I do have some of the muscle pain. I go back in for another cholesterol check in about 3 months. My chol was not that high anyway, 230 I think, except my LDL was 148 I think. Would have to get out my Labs to check for sure.
Do you know anything about Red Yeast Rice? Supposed to be good for lowering chol/LDL.
P.S. All that worrying I did about gluten foods on the cruise was not a worry at all, because they couldn't have been more accommodating. I had GF bread every evening along with some terrific GF menus. They even have a special kitchen just for GF foods where nothing else touches. Needless to say, I was impressed!
Tex,
I think it probably is a food that is causing the problem. I feel like digestion problems would be all day and not just in the evening, so I think food. I'll work on it -
Thanks to you both.
garina
What you described sounds like my joint juice bottle. I drink it because it helps (a little) with joint pain and also it has Vit D3 400 IU. I thought I was doing myself a little good, but, all the other junk I don't need. Thanks for pointing that out. Back to water.
I am going to try and wean off the statin because, after reading that article you posted, the memory loss scares me more than the muscle pain. I do have some of the muscle pain. I go back in for another cholesterol check in about 3 months. My chol was not that high anyway, 230 I think, except my LDL was 148 I think. Would have to get out my Labs to check for sure.
Do you know anything about Red Yeast Rice? Supposed to be good for lowering chol/LDL.
P.S. All that worrying I did about gluten foods on the cruise was not a worry at all, because they couldn't have been more accommodating. I had GF bread every evening along with some terrific GF menus. They even have a special kitchen just for GF foods where nothing else touches. Needless to say, I was impressed!
Tex,
I think it probably is a food that is causing the problem. I feel like digestion problems would be all day and not just in the evening, so I think food. I'll work on it -
Thanks to you both.
garina
Garina,
The older I get, the less I worry about elevated cholesterol levels. Doctors try to impose a one-size-fits-all cholesterol program for everyone, but the fact is that high cholesterol appears to be bad for young and medium aged people, but as we get older, higher cholesterol is directly associated with increased longevity. IOW, research shows that for older people, (as a group), the higher our cholesterol level, the longer we live. If you would like to see some references on that, consider these:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2564950
Also, higher cholesterol levels are important for surviving the stress of hospitalization. Look at the results of this study:
Here's another study:
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/272/17/1335.abstract
And for the very old:
Here's what Dr. Briffa has to say about it, in a blog titled, "Why a ‘raised’ cholesterol level may be a cause for celebration":
http://www.drbriffa.com/2011/10/06/why- ... lebration/
Tex
The older I get, the less I worry about elevated cholesterol levels. Doctors try to impose a one-size-fits-all cholesterol program for everyone, but the fact is that high cholesterol appears to be bad for young and medium aged people, but as we get older, higher cholesterol is directly associated with increased longevity. IOW, research shows that for older people, (as a group), the higher our cholesterol level, the longer we live. If you would like to see some references on that, consider these:
Converting the units to conventional units, (from the international units used in the article), means that this research showed that the lowest mortality occured at a total cholesterol level of 270 mg/dL, (7.0 mmol/l). At a total cholesterol level of 154, the risk of death was 5.2 times as high, and at a cholesterol level of 340 mg/dL, the risk of death was increased to only 1.8 times as high as at 270 mg/dL level.92 women aged 60 years and over (mean 82.2, SD 8.6) living in a nursing home and free from overt cancer were followed-up for 5 years. 53 died during this period; necropsy revealed cancer in only 1 patient. Serum total cholesterol at entry ranged from 4.0 to 8.8 mmol/l (mean 6.3, SD 1.1). Cox's proportional hazards analysis showed a J-shaped relation between serum cholesterol and mortality. Mortality was lowest at serum cholesterol 7.0 mmol/l, 5.2 times higher than the minimum at serum cholesterol 4.0 mmol/l, and only 1.8 times higher when cholesterol concentration was 8.8 mmol/l. This relation held true irrespective of age, even when blood pressure, body weight, history of myocardial infarction, creatinine clearance, and plasma proteins were taken into account. The relation between low cholesterol values and increased mortality was independent of the incidence of cancer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2564950
Also, higher cholesterol levels are important for surviving the stress of hospitalization. Look at the results of this study:
http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-934 ... 1/abstractResults
Patients (mean [± SD] age, 78 ± 7 years) were hospitalized for an average of 15 ± 10 days. The mean total cholesterol level was 186 ± 49 mg/dL. A total of 202 patients died during hospitalization. Mortality was inversely related to cholesterol levels (<160 mg/dL: 5.2% [110/2115]; 160–199 mg/dL: 2.2% [49/2210]; 200–239 mg/dL: 1.6% [27/1719]; and ≥240 mg/dL: 1.7% [16/940]; P for linear trend <0.001). After adjustment for potential confounders (demographic characteristics, smoking, alcohol use, indicators of nutritional status, markers of frailty, and comorbid conditions), low cholesterol levels continued to be associated with in-hospital mortality. Compared with patients who had cholesterol levels <160 mg/dL, the odds ratios for in-hospital mortality were 0.49 (95% confidence interval [CI]: 0.34 to 0.70) for participants with cholesterol levels of 160 to 199 mg/dL, 0.41 (95% CI: 0.26 to 0.65) for those with cholesterol levels of 200 to 239 mg/dL, and 0.56 (95% CI: 0.32 to 0.98) for those with cholesterol levels ≥240 mg/dL. These estimates were similar after further adjustment for inflammatory markers and after excluding patients with liver disease.
Conclusion
Among older hospitalized adults, low serum cholesterol levels appear to be an independent predictor of short-term mortality.
Here's another study:
Our findings do not support the hypothesis that hypercholesterolemia or low HDL-C are important risk factors for all-cause mortality, coronary heart disease mortality, or hospitalization for myocardial infarction or unstable angina in this cohort of persons older than 70 years.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/272/17/1335.abstract
And for the very old:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9343498INTERPRETATION: In people older than 85 years, high total cholesterol concentrations are associated with longevity owing to lower mortality from cancer and infection.
Here's what Dr. Briffa has to say about it, in a blog titled, "Why a ‘raised’ cholesterol level may be a cause for celebration":
http://www.drbriffa.com/2011/10/06/why- ... lebration/
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Garina,
Your 'worrisome' LDL is the same as mine - and I am not worried, because all my ratios are fantastic. Also, often LDL is not a direct measurement, but a calculation based on a formula - and that formula is not the only formula, and no formula is right all the time. (In my case, my very low triglycerides probably artifically inflate my LDL calculated value).
A friend of mine was taking Red Yeast Rice - which actually is a statin! - albeit a natural one. She had terrible muscle pains from it. I think she was taking a fair amount, thinking it was healthy. The pain stopped when she dropped the supplement. I agree with Tex - your cholesterol can be moved right to the bottom of the list of things you should worry about.
You will find another source of Vitamin D3 that agrees with you, I'm sure - and maybe of the glucosamine & chondroitin as well, though I don't know how those tend to be for us MCers...
Sara
Your 'worrisome' LDL is the same as mine - and I am not worried, because all my ratios are fantastic. Also, often LDL is not a direct measurement, but a calculation based on a formula - and that formula is not the only formula, and no formula is right all the time. (In my case, my very low triglycerides probably artifically inflate my LDL calculated value).
A friend of mine was taking Red Yeast Rice - which actually is a statin! - albeit a natural one. She had terrible muscle pains from it. I think she was taking a fair amount, thinking it was healthy. The pain stopped when she dropped the supplement. I agree with Tex - your cholesterol can be moved right to the bottom of the list of things you should worry about.
You will find another source of Vitamin D3 that agrees with you, I'm sure - and maybe of the glucosamine & chondroitin as well, though I don't know how those tend to be for us MCers...
Sara
FWIW, my LDL is 143, and my doc doesn't seem to be concerned about it, because the numbers we're talking about aren't high, anyway, they're called "borderline high". This is sort of like the so-called condition of "borderline high blood pressure", which is is a concept that was created and developed by the pharmaceutical companies, in a brilliant campaign to sell more drugs, (to people who don't actually need them). IOW, it's an attempt to create the illusion of a medical problem, where one doesn't exist. And unfortunately, the medical community fell for it, and promotes it as if it's actually a valid concept. 
Tex
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.