Conflicted Thoughts About Norman

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:13 pm

Since I figured out the last thing, the histamine foods, my gut has been extremely well-behaved. So long as I have a Zyrtec every day, and stay away from grains, legumes, and casein, I do very well. It's kind of scary. I was even glutened on Sunday. We were sitting in the back of the church, so by the time I dipped my GF communion bread in the wine, there were bread crumbs floating in it. I felt a little off on Monday, but that was basically all the reaction that I had.

This is probably going to seem very strange to y'all, but I have a strong temptation to start eating things that I shouldn't, like subconsciously I am thinking that I am "well" rather than in remission. The dairy is especially difficult to stay away from. I also feel like Norman is not doing the job that I need as far as elimination. It's almost like I became used to D a few times a day as being normal, and now that it is normal (i.e., like prior to MC), subconsciously I am thinking that it's not normal and I am missing normal.

Am I totally crazy? Has anyone else ever felt this way?

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:35 pm

Marliss,

So glad to hear you've found the missing piece of your puzzle! Hope you continue to feel fantastic!

I won't comment on the "urge to cheat" because, honestly, I don't think I'm there yet--I'm sure there are others who can relate, though!

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:00 pm

Marliss,
Although Gloria says she senses that I am coming to terms with my MC, and although I haven't come out of a flare yet, I keep wanting to cheat. I want cheese, yogurt, real ice cream. I want eggs for breakfast. With buttered toast.
I don't have them in the house, so I can't cheat. Doesn't mean to don't want to though. I don't think you are crazy.
Oh, regarding Norman? I haven't had him yet. I am more C than D, so once a day would be wonderful for me.

Gloria · Post by **Gloria** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:11 pm

Marliss,

I think it's very normal to think that you're "cured" when you have improvement. Experience and experimenting quickly bring us back to reality. I have several, no many, foods that I hope that I can resume eating someday. It's hard to know when you've reached the point where it's safe to begin testing foods again. Tex waited over a year, I believe, after he reached remission. It depends upon how quickly our gut heals, I guess. Apparently the timing doesn't begin exclusively with the elimination of gluten from the diet, or I would have been healed a few years ago and Tex would have reached remission more quickly, too.

Gloria

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:27 pm

I guess I haven't explained myself very well. I know that I am not cured, since there is no cure. And I would never purposely eat gluten, or soy--or dairy, I suppose, though I am seriously grieving the loss of it.

Maybe what I am trying to say is that this has consumed my life for so long and here for the last few weeks it has not so I am.... missing the fight??

I know it sounds weird. I am trying to make sense of how I am feeling myself.

sarkin · Post by **sarkin** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:29 pm

Marliss, I agree with Gloria. I would add that, as Tex has posted with more specifics, casein is a very powerful and addictive substance (gluten, too). I think I am past that, with casein and gluten. It did occur to me the other day that it used to be really easy to have a meal when I would boil water, throw in pasta, and then figure out what else I had to put on top of it.

I appreciate that you did not use the word 'cheat' - this is slightly different. I think this is more like that feeling or fear or dream that we might just mindlessly eat something, as if we can just eat *anything* - but different from that, too.

I have wondered, how would I know if an intolerance went away? How would I know whether eggs, for example, became reactive for me because of the cascade of gluten damage, and if so... how would I know if that intolerance is gone. It has crossed my mind about dairy, as a matter of principle, but not of desire. Dairy was pretty mean to me. I'm not making up with dairy - it's over between us. But - for you, I think dairy is more like eggs for me. Or almonds (which I may retest tomorrow, a guest is bringing a dish, I didn't rule out almonds, we'll see.)

I try not to think about Norman too much. I think there's a range to that fellow, and I am sort of swinging like a gentle pendulum from mostly Norman to not-so-much, to not-there-but-why. I recently had a day where I couldn't remember whether I had even had a BM or not, and that kind of freaked me out. It didn't drive me into the arms of dairy, but I've been at peace with this particular food elimination for longer, though you have been at the overall process longer than I have.

Awesome that the Zyrtec has helped, btw. Wishing you luck, and I hope this is a transitional line of thinking, toward a new and profound breakthrough with MC (whether physical or spiritual or something else).

xox/S

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:50 pm

I am longing for the day when I don't feel the pull of the addictive "forbiddens", but I still hope I can eat some of them someday. Even when I am not hungry, most of the time nowadays, I think about cheese and crackers. And eggs.

Post by **tex** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:24 pm

Hi Marliss,

Well, with the additional clarification - now, I think I understand what you're saying. Like our immune system, once gluten is out of the way, you've become bored, and you're looking around for another challenge, because you love a good fight, and so you're missing the adversity that you had to deal with every day when you were in a flare.

Hmmmmmm.

Maybe you just weren't sick enough.

Or maybe I'm just lazy, because I can't say that I've ever longed to return to those miserable days. I did enjoy the priceless feeling of empowerment when I realized that I had finally won the long battle, but for me - naw, all that time spent in the bathroom did not exactly win a revered spot in my memory.

You might be a candidate for taking up a sky-diving, alligator-wrestling, or mountain-climbing hobby.

Tex

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:42 am

Hi Marliss,

I read your post yesterday, but didn't have time to respond. I'm very happy for you that you've found the final piece of the puzzle - congratulations!!! Anyhow, your post made me LOL - Norman - you can't live with him and you can't live without him

.

I think I do know what you mean - it has something to do with change and time and the let-down you feel when finally reaching a goal after so much effort has gone into striving for it. There is a kind of "vacuum" feeling, and you look around and think "now what". I have a tendency to "shoot myself in the foot" because I'm good at pushing my limits. So I have had a few inexcusable set-backs. However, I don't view that as failure, rather it's part of living life. Since we are going to live with this disease for the rest of our lives, we might as well have some peaks and valleys on the way

.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't in a million years go anywhere near gluten, but I'm not convinced that my dairy sensitivity is carved in stone, so I have tried a small piece of cheese here and there without any adverse reaction. The first time I tried it, it was such a tastebud explosion and "head rush" I nearly fell over (it was in a supermarket). My biggest problem is when I eat too much of something, or too much variety, or too spicy.

Wishing you continued success - you have made an amazing recovery, and been a thorough and wise detective !!!

Love,
Kari

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:13 pm

Wow, Tex and Kari, you have nailed it! Especially Kari--I have discerned many similarities in our journey, as I have with Sara. There is a vacuum, or a let down. It doesn't have anything to do with how sick I was or not, it has to do with the fight. And the fight is over, apparently. I am in remission. I feel like I've achieved a goal, and now I am looking around, to see what's next.

Hmmm... skydiving? Believe it or not, I've thought about that before!

I hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving!!

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:28 pm

OK Marliss - skydiving - let me know where and when and I may just join you

- it's something I've thought would be a lot of fun

.

We went on a trip to South America last year and our trip leader (70 years old) had always wanted to skydive, so he did - in Rio (one of our stops on the cruise). He had discovered that it was the perfect place to skydive, as he got to land on a beach. I was very jealous of his little (or should I say BIG) adventure :).

Love,
Kari

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:19 pm

We talked about this with Harma before she moved to Jordon.

all of us spend so much time, energy, thoughts and emotions to figure out our individual mc management plan so when it gets to a stage that it doesnt need as much time and energy etc we are like - ok what now??

in my case i didint have thoughts of the favourite foods i had given up and one strange thing for me, i have no strong desire to test and add ingredients to my eating plan, i dont want to upset the the status quo i have achieved, and maybe the fact i live alone contributes to that status.
Albeit even though the MC is at a good stage, like a family of meerkats new symptoms have popped up out of the ground, to give me a new challenge and mystery to figure out.

sarkin · Post by **sarkin** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:51 pm

Marliss (and Kari, since you mentioned that head-rush and cheese...),

A neighbor is hoping I'll "get dairy back" - it makes her really sad. Maybe this will change - but my reaction was more like, NOT ME! - that stuff really messed me up. It's kind of like breaking up with a really bad boyfriend.... painful to do, but nothing you'd ever go back to!

I do think I need to figure out what I'll be putting my attention on, when eating safely stops being so all-consuming. For now, I believe that will be a pear-hazelnut tart ;)

I found the whole Thanksgiving process kind of illuminating - nothing like a major holiday, plus a couple of restrictions on ingredients, to bring everyone's food-craziness into focus. I'm not saying I don't have any food 'issues' of my own, but watching people who don't realize how over-wrought they're being (about just one dish in one meal out of 21 this week)... was interesting! (One neighbor told my visiting nephew that he could go over there if he couldn't go another minute without something gluten-y, and she was not kidding... this is a kid who would absent-mindedly forget to eat entire meals, so I'm pretty sure if he went a few more hours without wheat flour, his health and psyche would emerge unscathed!) Another friend who did her cooking here kept asking me for obscure ingredients, as though only walnut oil would make her dish turn out. (Which, if true, might have made that a clever thing for her to include in her shopping... n'est ce pas?) At least she was self-aware enough at one point to remark that she didn't have any of those things in her own pantry, either.

Love,
Sara

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:20 pm

Gabes, you're right--thanks for reminding me. I'm glad to know I'm not crazy, and not alone in having these conflicting thoughts. And actually--since the MC is under control, at least for the time being (because really, who knows) I should bend my efforts towards my thyroiditis, which has taken a back seat for the most part to MC.

Sara, food-craziness is a good description. I have wondered for a long time why food has to be a part of everything nowadays. It's doesn't seem that one can have any kind of a meeting without snacks, or at least coffee, which with all the creamers available can be so high-caloried as to almost substitute for a meal. I go to a Bible study where we have water. And that's it. It is so refreshing. Occasionally, we will go out to a restaurant for a meal or have a meal at someone's house, but that's not for the Bible study, that's just good friends getting together for dinner.

I hope that you had an enjoyable Thanksgiving anyway, though it sound like you spent a lot of it biting your tongue instead of your turkey.

Post by **tex** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:44 pm

Marliss wrote:Sara, food-craziness is a good description. I have wondered for a long time why food has to be a part of everything nowadays.

Even the early morning so-called tv news shows, (Today, Good Morning America, etc.), seem to have a fixation with food - they feel obligated to include a section on cooking, or selecting food, etc, in virtually every show. When the tv news shows can't even function without covering food, (as if it were news), I'd say that as a society, we have kind of an unhealthy fixation on food.

Gee, I wounder why the obesity rate in this country continues to climb, and set new records. Maybe we need to spend more time thinking about, (and eating), food.

Tex