Magnesium Again

Post by **tex** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:12 am

Hi All,

A few weeks ago I posted about trying to switch from magnesium citrate to magnesium glycinate, but finding that my leg and foot cramps soon returned whenever I used magnesium glycinate for a couple of days or so. So I switched back to magnesium citrate, and once again, I had no more problems with cramps.

So then I came up with the brilliant idea of simply using a higher dose of magnesium glycinate (since it's listed as being less absorbable). So I tried doubling the dose (800 mg of magnesium glycinate per day). Since that is double the RDA for men, I was sure that would resolve the problem. It seemed fine for 3 or 4 days, and then I woke up early one morning with severe cramps. You know — the kind of cramps where you have to bail out of bed and either stand or walk around in order to get the muscles to relax, to relieve the pain.

I couldn't believe it, so I used magnesium citrate for a couple of days (my usual dose of 400 mg per day). Interestingly, the magnesium citrate always resolves the cramps issue in only one day, so it's obviously highly absorbable.

And then I tried 800 mg of magnesium glycinate again. On the second morning, I had another one of those bail-out-of-bed-to-resolve-the-pain-from-cramps episodes. So I'm back to the magnesium citrate, and that does it for me. I'm convinced. Clearly, I require a significant (and effective) magnesium supplement, and I'm sticking with magnesium citrate. I've used other forms of magnesium, and they all seemed to work for me — except for the magnesium glycinate. Or course, I could probably treble or quadruple the dose, and it might work, but that runs the cost up significantly, because magnesium glycinate is not a cheap source of magnesium.

I'm aware that others have had very good results from magnesium glycinate, but apparently they only need a small amount of magnesium supplementation, or else for some reason or other they are able to absorb magnesium glycinate much more efficiently. I wonder if the fact that part of my terminal ileum is missing might be part of the problem.

Tex

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:58 am

I was taking liquid magnesium glycinate for a while. I've never had foot cramps before, so when I read on the forum that was a sign of magnesium deficiency, I got the magnesium glycinate because the citrate form causes diarrhea. I discontinued it because I didn't think it wasn't helping with the cramps, and it tastes nasty. Then the cramps stopped, and I decided I was getting enough magnesium from Celtic salt and whatever else in my diet. Then the cramps started back up again. So I'm thinking the magnesium glycinate just took a while to kick in. I wonder if it might be that way with you, Tex? Although since the citrate form works for you, I agree there's no point in going back to the glycinate.

This latest flare was just horrible, and blind-sided me. I made an appointment with a naturopath that a friend thinks is wonderful and who specializes in thyroid, adrenal, and digestive issues. I will have to pay out-of-pocket, but I need some answers and a better plan of action. I want to get my magnesium level tested, so I am reluctant to start taking the magnesium glycinate again because I want a baseline reading.

But what damage might I be doing to ignore a magnesium deficiency?

JeanIrene · Post by **JeanIrene** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:58 am

Tex, I noticed I am having cramps with the glycinate version, but didn't correlate it with my switch from citrate until reading your post. I'm kinda hesitant about doing anything to soften things too much at this point, but I thought I might switch types every other day and see how that works.

Jean

Post by **tex** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:06 am

Marliss,

I don't believe that time is a factor in the effectiveness of magnesium supplements, at least not for me. Most forms seem to work almost immediately for me, but when I start taking magnesium glycinate, I will be okay for a few days (until my residual magnesium is used up), and then I have cramps, because I'm no longer absorbing enough magnesium. It seems to be very consistent with this pattern.

According to "experts", magnesium orotate is the best form to use, but that's one that I have never tried.

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natu ... magnesium/

Jean,

I agree that magnesium citrate can be risky. It's so effective for me that I can take it every other day, and never have cramps. I normally take 400 mg every day, and it doesn't seem to bother me, but you have to remember that with an ileostomy, I have nothing but what most people would call D on a regular basis anyway, because the stoma opening is only about an eighth to a quarter of an inch in diameter, so there's no way it would accommodate what's considered to be a normal BM. With an ileostomy it's relatively easy to judge whether or not I have D though, simply by the noting the volume. That pouch will fill up way too many times in the day, if I have D.

If I were having trouble with D because of magnesium citrate, I would switch to magnesium orotate. And remember that for the forms that are well absorbed, you can take a much smaller dose and still get plenty of magnesium. IOW, for me, 240 or 250 mg of magnesium citrate is plenty, so I would guess that I might be able to get by with an even smaller dose of magnesium orotate. And the RDA for magnesium for women is 320, as I recall, rather than 400 (the RDA for men).

For example, you might be able to get by with 100 to 150 mg of magnesium orotate, per day.

Tex

JeanIrene · Post by **JeanIrene** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:05 am

Good idea, Tex. I had forgotten orotate. I might give that a shot before I go to the citrate.

Ha! I feel like I'm becoming part chemist reading this site!

Jean

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:47 am

I bought this sports-drink powder (mostly for the hubby and son playing sports), but I drank it when I had gastroenteritis without trouble. It contains magnesium hydroxide and carbonate. Are these substandard forms? Is the manganese and chromium good for us? It also has calcium and potassium.

I continue to take 250 mgs of magnesium glycinate daily.

Post by **tex** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:24 pm

Magnesium hydroxide is commonly known as milk of magnesia.

Magnesium carbonate is commonly known as chalk, but it also has a strong laxative effect if it's taken in high dosages.

I'm guessing those forms were chosen for the sports drink because they're low-cost.

Tex

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:42 pm

Great.

Guess I won't be drinking it anymore.

Post by **tex** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:48 pm

Well, it probably doesn't contain enough to be a problem. After all, who would buy a sports drink if it gave them the trots every time they drank it.

Tex

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:03 pm

My son is known for butt-grabbing emergencies while out on the baseball field. No need to add more risk factors for on-field accidents!

Sheila · Post by **Sheila** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:24 pm

I skimmed this post when it was written and was thankful that I haven't had foot or leg cramps in a very long time. Last week I woke up with foot cramps and the next night with a charley horse. This has continued every night, either foot or calf and sometimes, yippee, I get both. The power of suggestion?
My multivitamin contains just plain magnesium. I guess I need more, or another kind, but why? Why now? Nothing much has changed (except an epidural in my neck) and I'm feeling well, other than jump-out-of-bed cramps every night. What would suddenly cause cramps to start up again and what do I do about it?
After reading the "cramps" thread, I'm not sure what kind and how much magnesium I should take. Could the cramps be caused by something else? Help, Tex, this just sucks.

Sheila W

Post by **tex** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:16 pm

Hi Sheila,

Sorry to hear that you're having leg/foot cramps. I'm not sure why magnesium requirements might change, but maybe we need more magnesium in the summer because we lose some of it in our perspiration, or maybe something else causes a deficiency.

And when my magnesium problems show up, they're usually similar to what you described — a combination of a charley horse in my calf, and cramps in the foot on the same side of the body. And yep, it's one type of pain that I'm unable to ignore, so I definitely agree that it sucks, big time.

The RDA for women is 320 mg, as I recall, but that doesn't mean much because many of the supplements are only about 30–40 % absorbable, and that can be further limited my any malabsorption issues that we might happen to have (and that can vary with the degree of control that we have over our MC, of course). The safest type of magnesium supplement is magnesium orotate, and magnesium glycinate runs a close second, but magnesium glycinate is not very absorable, according to my experience with it. Even 800 mg of magnesium glucinate daily doesn't prevent cramps for me, but I can take as little as 240 mg of magnesium citrate, and never have a problem with cramps.

In your case, yes, it's possible that they might be caused by something else. Just about any electrolyte deficiency can cause the problem in some situations, so there's a possibility that a deficiency of potassium, calcium, or even ordinary salt, could be causing the problem, especially if you've been doing more perspiring lately. Salt loss can go up dramatically with a big increase in perspiration. Most of the time though, a magnesium deficiency is the problem, because research shows that most Americans are low on magnesium to begin with.

If you're concerned about oral magnesium supplements causing D, you can use a topical spray-on solution that can be absorbed through the skin, or you can just add Epsom salt to your bath water.

I haven't had any more problems since I've gone back to the magnesium citrate.

Tex

Sheila · Post by **Sheila** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:55 pm

Thanks, Tex. Not much has changed except, yup, it's summer in South Florida and if you are outside, you are sweating. I did some yard work last week and was at the gym couple of times. I guess that could have tipped the scales and caused the cramps. I will get the magnesium citrate and hopefully be able to sleep through the night without the jumping bean routine.

Sheila W.

Post by **tex** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:26 pm

OK, here's an update on the magnesium supplement situation:

If you're familiar with my history of food or supplement trials, then you're probably aware that I don't usually stop testing just because I convince myself that something will or won't work. I have to try at least one more time, to be absolutely sure, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

It occurred to me that maybe the magnesium glycinate didn't work for me even at the 800 mg rate because I had developed a borderline deficit situation by using the 400 mg dose of magnesium glycinate for a few days, and maybe I just needed to be in a more stable range before a higher dosage of it would work. So I used the rest of the bottle of magnesium citrate, (at 400 mg per day) which took about 3 or 4 weeks, and then I switched to magnesium glycinate at 800 mg per day, which is double the RDA (for men) for magnesium.

I would rather use the magnesium glycinate form because it's less likely to act as a laxative than magnesium citrate. I've been using that rate (800 mg per day) for 3 or 4 weeks now, and so far so good. No sign of any leg or foot cramps. I've ordered some more, and I intend to continue using it unless it stops working for me at the 800 mg rate.

Hopefully, this concludes my magnesium testing for a while.

Tex

terre · Post by **terre** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:23 pm

I've been having leg / foot cramps so I scanned my vitamin supply and the bottle I found says Magnesium Full Range Amino Acid Chelate in An Herb Base.

Other Ingredients: Vegetable Cellulose Capsule, Magnesium Stearate, Organic Alfalfa and Parsley.

Discussion: The Magnesium in this product is reacted with whole rice concentrate rather than ordinary soy, yeast, or milk proteins which are commonly used to chelate minerals. The special rice used is approximately seven times higher in amino acid content than ordinary rice and has a better essential amino acid profile than soy.

Guess I should avoid this Magnesium product?

Terre